Discussion:
What are the special properties of zero?
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Charlie-Boo
2017-01-04 01:35:35 UTC
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What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers? It can be a capability that arises because a value is 0, or a prohibition because it is 0.

C-B
Pubkeybreaker
2017-01-04 04:46:49 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
Ross A. Finlayson
2017-01-04 04:53:16 UTC
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Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
Zero is also the
multiplicative annihilator,
of the usual numbers.

Division goes without mention,
where all the other operations
about all the other values
are closed about the usual numbers.

Also it's usually the only value
labelled at the origin, the only
value implicitly a member of a
vector space, etcetera.

The zero, one, and infinity are
quite usually intrinsically
unique in the usual numbers,
for various reasons.
Charlie-Boo
2017-01-04 12:45:45 UTC
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Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero. For example, you can divide both sides of an equation by the same number EXCEPT if it's zero. You can express A*B=0 as (A=0)v(B=0).

C-B
b***@gmail.com
2017-01-04 13:34:30 UTC
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Hey C-B,

remember you from ~7 years ago on sci.logic as well.

You might be interested in conjunction,
and not only disjunction.

Lets write cc(A) for the complex conjugate of A. Then
I guess A*cc(A)+B*cc(B) = 0 iff A = 0 & B = 0.

Bye
Post by Charlie-Boo
Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero. For example, you can divide both sides of an equation by the same number EXCEPT if it's zero. You can express A*B=0 as (A=0)v(B=0).
C-B
Pubkeybreaker
2017-01-04 14:22:18 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero.
Vague and meaningless.
I should have known better than to try to be helpful.
bert
2017-01-04 14:36:15 UTC
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Post by Pubkeybreaker
I should have known better than to try to be helpful.
Oh no. Please try - but just once.
--
Charlie-Boo
2017-01-05 02:18:03 UTC
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Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
Post by Pubkeybreaker
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero.
Vague and meaningless.
I should have known better than to try to be helpful.
Well, I did give examples of each (can and cannot.) But the properties with respect to addition and multiplication are well known and I wanted to expand my knowledge. I do appreciate your input.

The reason is that I have discovered a parallel between the paradoxes of logic (e.g. "This is false.") and ordinary arithmetic. Some of the special properties of 0 (e.g. you can't divide by 0) play a central role and I wanted to find any such special properties, in order to determine their correspondence within the paradoxes to expand this parallel.

Thanks,

C-B
Julio Di Egidio
2017-01-04 15:16:59 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero.
Nothing and everything, it really depends on the system. Mainly with
interval-based systems, you can even have algebra with division by zero
on both sides, and infinities, etc.

Julio
Me
2017-01-04 17:38:10 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all
other real numbers?
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero.
How about:

x/x = 1 for all real numbers, except the real number 0

?
Vinicius Claudino Ferraz
2017-01-05 00:44:13 UTC
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We can do with zero the same we can do with infinity.

lim [t → ∞] [f(t)/g(t)] = 0
f(t) = c, g(t) = at
f(t) = ctⁿ, g(t) = ktª, a > n
f(t) = ln t, g(t) = t
f(t) = ctⁿ, g(t) = t!
f(t) = t!, g(t) = t^t

lim [t → ∞] | g(t)/f(t) | = ∞

0 ⋅ ∞ = 0/0 = ∞ ⋅ ∞ are three indeterminations
1^∞ = exp(ln( 1^∞ )) = exp(∞ ln(1)) = exp(∞ ⋅ 0) is another indetermination

I'm worried with

cardinality (set A): # A < 0
norm (vector v): ||v|| < 0
inner product: <v, v> < 0
distance(vectors): dist(u, v) < 0
diameter(set A): diam A < 0
dimension(space U): dim U < 0

It seems to me that for those negativities exist, we need to invent some things out of standards.

Vinicius
twitter.com/mathspiritual

Em quarta-feira, 4 de janeiro de 2017 10:45:59 UTC-2, Charlie-Boo escreveu:
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero. For example, you can divide both sides of an equation by the same number EXCEPT if it's zero. You can express A*B=0 as (A=0)v(B=0).
Ross A. Finlayson
2017-01-05 00:50:57 UTC
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Post by Vinicius Claudino Ferraz
We can do with zero the same we can do with infinity.
lim [t → ∞] [f(t)/g(t)] = 0
f(t) = c, g(t) = at
f(t) = ctⁿ, g(t) = ktª, a > n
f(t) = ln t, g(t) = t
f(t) = ctⁿ, g(t) = t!
f(t) = t!, g(t) = t^t
lim [t → ∞] | g(t)/f(t) | = ∞
0 ⋅ ∞ = 0/0 = ∞ ⋅ ∞ are three indeterminations
1^∞ = exp(ln( 1^∞ )) = exp(∞ ln(1)) = exp(∞ ⋅ 0) is another indetermination
I'm worried with
cardinality (set A): # A < 0
norm (vector v): ||v|| < 0
inner product: <v, v> < 0
distance(vectors): dist(u, v) < 0
diameter(set A): diam A < 0
dimension(space U): dim U < 0
It seems to me that for those negativities exist, we need to invent some things out of standards.
Vinicius
twitter.com/mathspiritual
I am mostly interested in things you can and cannot do with zero. For example, you can divide both sides of an equation by the same number EXCEPT if it's zero. You can express A*B=0 as (A=0)v(B=0).
Perhaps it's the negative,
perhaps it's the reverse,
perhaps it's the inverse,
perhaps it's the reciprocal.

You can write
0/0+
differently than
0/0
or
x/x
with the composition
of arithmetic and inequality,
about the laws of arithmetic
about inequality, and the
implementation of the algorithm.
a***@gmail.com
2017-01-05 00:49:35 UTC
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also, O; I just read that they have been used in cellphony
for a long time; add to that that
3-ary polarization has also been used in cellphony
for at least ten years (old issue of Science newS
Post by Pubkeybreaker
It is the additive identity for Z, Q, R, and C.
It is also the characteristic for each of these rings/fields.
John Gabriel
2017-01-04 14:41:13 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers? It can be a capability that arises because a value is 0, or a prohibition because it is 0.
C-B
0 is not required at all in mathematics, just like negative numbers and those mythical complex numbers. But 0 and negative numbers make communication much easier. They are strictly for human consumption. That is,

0 tells us we have no magnitude.
A negative tells us we are short of some magnitude. We could easily have chosen to represent negative numbers as (k) where the parenthesis means lacking k or less k.

The Ancient Greeks were not ignorant of zero. In fact there are several Greek words which mean exactly that. However, the way number is defined excludes magnitudes that do not exist or are lacking:

****A number is the measure of a magnitude.****

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-we-got-numbers-john-gabriel-1
a***@gmail.com
2017-01-07 00:00:52 UTC
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jerl hates Fourier, for no detectable reason ... unless
he has a video about taht
Post by John Gabriel
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-we-got-numbers-john-gabriel-1
Dan Christensen
2017-01-04 17:11:27 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers? It can be a capability that arises because a value is 0, or a prohibition because it is 0.
C-B
I'm guessing you really mean, how do we define 0. After all, any theorem that mentions 0 can be thought of as a "special property" of 0.

In the real numbers, 0 is defined to be the additive identity, i.e. 0 in R and for all x in R, x+0=x.


Dan
Download my DC Proof 2.0 software at http://www.dcproof.com
Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com
Peter Percival
2017-01-04 17:53:16 UTC
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Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
Take any number you like and it is different from all other numbers.
Post by Charlie-Boo
It can be a capability that arises because a value is 0, or a prohibition because it is 0.
C-B
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Charlie-Boo
2017-01-05 22:27:41 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
Post by Charlie-Boo
What are the contexts in mathematics in which only 0 is different from all other real numbers?
Take any number you like and it is different from all other numbers.
It depends on the context. You can divide an equation by 2 and by 3. They are the same in this context. But 0 is the only real number you can't divide an equation by.

C-B
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Charlie-Boo
It can be a capability that arises because a value is 0, or a prohibition because it is 0.
C-B
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-05 23:05:06 UTC
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A set theory may be consistent but have 0 instances of the axiom variables
Charlie-Boo
2017-01-06 03:46:06 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
A set theory may be consistent but have 0 instances of the axiom variables
What is an instance of an axiom variable?
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