Discussion:
The math history of using the word "times" in place of multiply// for Array history
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Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-17 08:45:43 UTC
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Now in the USA we use "times" interchangeably with "multiply". Times usually wins in usage because it is easier to say. Although "dot" is making inroads, but seems a specialized multiply.

Personally i do not like to use "times" because of its link to the clock time. But habits die hard and a lifetime of using "times" is not going to change.

I want to include the use of times in the Math Array.

In school the teachers teach multiply by saying 2 times 3 is 6.

Now i need to know what the other languages use for multiply. Do the French, Germans, Russians, Chinese etc etc all use "multiply" and then use the "clock time" word "time" in their language to mean multiply?

Now i think German word for time is zeit and they do not say 2 zeit 3 ist 6.

Not even sure if the British use "times"

Now as for add, it has not been hijacked for some easier word, some use plus, but for subtraction even subtract is too long and our minds want lazy ease so we let "minus" infiltrate and hijack subtract. The mind is a devious rascal in that whenever it need not drag more syllables over a hill, the mind automatically opts for the word "times" shaving off milliseconds rather than saying "multiply" and saying minus saves milliseconds rather than saying subtract. Now "divide" is another hill to climb so we look and find "into". And "into" has a huge bonus as less confusing so we say 8 divide 4, we do not know if you meant 8/4 or 4/8. But 8 into 4 is clearly 4/8.

Now these others of add, subtract, divide do not bother me, only "times" bothers me because of the connection with the physics parameter of "time as a clock". Almost a apocryphal link up. Why link up time in physics with multiply in math? In Ancient Greeks what was their "multiply and then, their times" or did the have just one term.

Now this is important because there is seem deep mystery as to why intelligent life would be guided like Adam Smith's invisible hand guiding buyers and sellers in economics.

Some invisible god like hand guiding intelligent life to look around and settle upon "times" to be the same as multiply.

AP
Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-17 09:40:46 UTC
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Now i vaguely remember the word for "times" in German is "mal" so we have 2 mal 3 ist 6

Now in French it is "fois" but do they use it as 2 fois 4 = 8
Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-17 21:34:56 UTC
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Post by Archimedes Plutonium
Now i vaguely remember the word for "times" in German is "mal" so we have 2 mal 3 ist 6
Now in French it is "fois" but do they use it as 2 fois 4 = 8
Alright, let me explore this, for it is possible that from language we get the word for "multiply" as
"times" can tell us-- all the way back at the dawn of Human history, tell us how we evolved from apes in trees to that of stonethrowing human beings.

Highly unlikely, but possible. Highly unlikely.

Now, it is easy to see that animals know something about add or sum or "how many". Just on TV last week was a animal show where the mother duck waited for all her chicks to drop out of the tree hollow in order to go to a pond. So she apparently knew a "number" of her chicks, she knew a quantity. So animals all have some instinct know how of "how many" whether a primitive notion or more sophisticated. Subtraction would be something missing. Division for animals would be like -- did I get my ration of the carcass. But, multiplication, now, that is a too far to grasp for animals, and no real use.

Until in the history of life, when would a "multiplication concept" arrive? When would it be needed?

Certainly, it would be needed to have multiplication when you have farming, where you have 4 rows and you have 10 in a row is 50. Rather than count up to 50 by adding.

But is multiply need to multiply come in any earlier in the history of life on Earth? When is multiply utterly needed? When is it needed before being able to 5 times 10 is 50?

Here is where Stonethrowing theory of humanity, creating humanity out of ape stock enter the picture on how Multiply known as "times" is borne.

Stonethrowing theory posits that the human brain needed to expand because throwing requires math of geometry to see how a stone in air in flight hits its target. A Geometry mind can picture a rock thrown and flying in the air.

Now, multiply in farming of 5 times 10 rows is not throwing rocks and stones. Unless, of course, you are in a band or tribe of rockthrowers say a tribe of 10 males and you know there are another tribe of many males yonder who aim to kill you.

So, in a situation like this, you need multiply along with add. The mind needs to know you can carry a sack of 3 times 10 rocks assuming your enemy is 10 warriors, so that you throw 3 rocks at each one of your enemies. Or, you bring 3 rocks for each or your companions back to the campfire.

So, the first time in history of life on Earth, that multiply needs to be, needs to happen, needs to exist, is when apes evolved into humans and to prepare to fight against enemies.

Now, these prehumans throwing rocks and stones, would need a word for that idea of 3 x 10 = 30.

And there could not have been a better word for multiply than the word "times", the physics word for Time of a clock. Time back then for throwing apes-humans is not a clock time, although they would have been aware of day and night progression, but time for them would have been a "future event".

The future event that loomed for them was a showdown of 10 warriors in one tribe against 10 from another tribe. So, time for them was an event of the future.

So, 10 enemy and you want to throw 3 rocks at each. Naturally, thus, is borne multiplication where you tell your companions in your language 3 TIMES 10. You probably had a word for 3 and for 10, but maybe no word for 30, except to say 3 times 10.

AP
Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-18 00:30:20 UTC
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On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 4:35:01 PM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

evolution of multiplication as "times" Re: The math history of using the word "times" in place of multiply// for Array history
Post by Archimedes Plutonium
Now i vaguely remember the word for "times" in German is "mal" so we have 2 mal 3 ist 6
Now in French it is "fois" but do they use it as 2 fois 4 = 8
So, out of curiosity, do the French say 2 fois 3 = 6?

Alright, let me explore this, for it is possible that from language we get the word for "multiply" as
"times" can tell us-- all the way back at the dawn of Human history, tell us how we evolved from apes in trees to that of stonethrowing human beings.

Highly unlikely, but possible. Highly unlikely.

Here I am looking for where in the history of planet Earth, is there a need for multiplication to be known. Certainly no animal needs to know multiplication except for when Humanity was borne or a ape like human was borne.

The apes of today have no need of multiplication concept. But in the early formation of pre-humans, the need of Multiplication as that of Times, such as 3 times 10 is very useful when you want to throw 3 rocks at each 10 enemies.

Now, it is easy to see that animals know something about add or sum or "how many". Just on TV last week was a animal show where the mother duck waited for all her chicks to drop out of the tree hollow in order to go to a pond. So she apparently knew a "number" of her chicks, she knew a quantity. So animals all have some instinct know how of "how many" whether a primitive notion or more sophisticated. Subtraction would be something missing. Division for animals would be like -- did I get my ration of the carcass. But, multiplication, now, that is a too far to grasp for animals, and no real use.

Animals know quantity-- their offspring, and so they need to know add, and to some extent know subtract in that "so and so is missing". To some extent division, in my share of food at dinner. But, no need ever for multiply, until (I speculate) rockthrowing comes along.



Until in the history of life, when would a "multiplication concept" arrive? When would it be needed?

Certainly, it would be needed to have multiplication when you have farming, where you have 5 rows and you have 10 in a row is 50. Rather than count up to 50 by adding.

But is multiply need to multiply come in any earlier in the history of life on Earth? When is multiply utterly needed? When is it needed before being able to 5 times 10 is 50?

Here I think is the need for Life to have multiplication-- when an animal lives by throwing rocks-- ie, humans.

Here is where Stonethrowing theory of humanity, creating humanity out of ape stock enters the picture on how Multiply known as "times" is borne.

Stonethrowing theory posits that the human brain needed to expand because throwing requires math of geometry to see how a stone in air in flight hits its target. A Geometry mind can picture a rock thrown and flying in the air.

Now, multiply in farming of 5 times 10 rows is not throwing rocks and stones. Unless, of course, you are in a band or tribe of rockthrowers say a tribe of 10 males and you know there are another tribe of many males yonder who aim to kill you.

So, in a situation like this, you need multiply along with add. The mind needs to know you can carry a sack of 3 times 10 rocks assuming your enemy is 10 warriors, so that you throw 3 rocks at each one of your enemies. Or, you bring 3 rocks for each or your companions back to the campfire.

So, the first time in history of life on Earth, that multiply needs to be, needs to happen, needs to exist, is when apes evolved into humans and to prepare to fight against enemies.

Now, these prehumans throwing rocks and stones, would need a word for that idea of 3 x 10 = 30.

Of course you need add and thus sum, so you collect say a "bunch of rocks" because enemies are coming. But that needs to be refined to 3 rocks per person or 4 or 5 times 10. So here we see emerging the first NEED of multiply.

And there could not have been a better word for multiply than the word "times", the physics word for Time of a clock. Time back then for throwing apes-humans is not a clock time, although they would have been aware of day and night progression, but time for them would have been a "future event".

The future event that loomed for them was a showdown of 10 warriors in one tribe against 10 from another tribe. So, "time" for them was an event of the future.

So, 10 enemy and you want to throw 3 rocks at each. Naturally, thus, is borne multiplication where you tell your companions in your language 3 TIMES 10. You probably had a word for 3 and for 10, but maybe no word for 30, except to say 3 times 10.

So naturally Time as meaning some future event, so you have 3 times 10 when the 10 enemies come over the ridge to fight you.

AP
b***@gmail.com
2017-06-18 00:39:04 UTC
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I guess multiplication was invented because of brain farts.
If the neandertaler were sitting in there caves, they
needed to multiply the farts of each member with the
number of members. And they needed also number comparison,

because of the fart x member was bigger than some level,
one of the members had to go out of the cave, because
there was danger of air polution and loosing all brain cells.
So multiplication was definitely invented cause of brain farts.

P.S.:
We see this behaviour still today, when smokers go out
to the balcony to take a puff, thoughtfulness for the others.
Post by Archimedes Plutonium
evolution of multiplication as "times" Re: The math history of using the word "times" in place of multiply// for Array history
Post by Archimedes Plutonium
Now i vaguely remember the word for "times" in German is "mal" so we have 2 mal 3 ist 6
Now in French it is "fois" but do they use it as 2 fois 4 = 8
So, out of curiosity, do the French say 2 fois 3 = 6?
Alright, let me explore this, for it is possible that from language we get the word for "multiply" as
"times" can tell us-- all the way back at the dawn of Human history, tell us how we evolved from apes in trees to that of stonethrowing human beings.
Highly unlikely, but possible. Highly unlikely.
Here I am looking for where in the history of planet Earth, is there a need for multiplication to be known. Certainly no animal needs to know multiplication except for when Humanity was borne or a ape like human was borne.
The apes of today have no need of multiplication concept. But in the early formation of pre-humans, the need of Multiplication as that of Times, such as 3 times 10 is very useful when you want to throw 3 rocks at each 10 enemies.
Now, it is easy to see that animals know something about add or sum or "how many". Just on TV last week was a animal show where the mother duck waited for all her chicks to drop out of the tree hollow in order to go to a pond. So she apparently knew a "number" of her chicks, she knew a quantity. So animals all have some instinct know how of "how many" whether a primitive notion or more sophisticated. Subtraction would be something missing. Division for animals would be like -- did I get my ration of the carcass. But, multiplication, now, that is a too far to grasp for animals, and no real use.
Animals know quantity-- their offspring, and so they need to know add, and to some extent know subtract in that "so and so is missing". To some extent division, in my share of food at dinner. But, no need ever for multiply, until (I speculate) rockthrowing comes along.
Until in the history of life, when would a "multiplication concept" arrive? When would it be needed?
Certainly, it would be needed to have multiplication when you have farming, where you have 5 rows and you have 10 in a row is 50. Rather than count up to 50 by adding.
But is multiply need to multiply come in any earlier in the history of life on Earth? When is multiply utterly needed? When is it needed before being able to 5 times 10 is 50?
Here I think is the need for Life to have multiplication-- when an animal lives by throwing rocks-- ie, humans.
Here is where Stonethrowing theory of humanity, creating humanity out of ape stock enters the picture on how Multiply known as "times" is borne.
Stonethrowing theory posits that the human brain needed to expand because throwing requires math of geometry to see how a stone in air in flight hits its target. A Geometry mind can picture a rock thrown and flying in the air.
Now, multiply in farming of 5 times 10 rows is not throwing rocks and stones. Unless, of course, you are in a band or tribe of rockthrowers say a tribe of 10 males and you know there are another tribe of many males yonder who aim to kill you.
So, in a situation like this, you need multiply along with add. The mind needs to know you can carry a sack of 3 times 10 rocks assuming your enemy is 10 warriors, so that you throw 3 rocks at each one of your enemies. Or, you bring 3 rocks for each or your companions back to the campfire.
So, the first time in history of life on Earth, that multiply needs to be, needs to happen, needs to exist, is when apes evolved into humans and to prepare to fight against enemies.
Now, these prehumans throwing rocks and stones, would need a word for that idea of 3 x 10 = 30.
Of course you need add and thus sum, so you collect say a "bunch of rocks" because enemies are coming. But that needs to be refined to 3 rocks per person or 4 or 5 times 10. So here we see emerging the first NEED of multiply.
And there could not have been a better word for multiply than the word "times", the physics word for Time of a clock. Time back then for throwing apes-humans is not a clock time, although they would have been aware of day and night progression, but time for them would have been a "future event".
The future event that loomed for them was a showdown of 10 warriors in one tribe against 10 from another tribe. So, "time" for them was an event of the future.
So, 10 enemy and you want to throw 3 rocks at each. Naturally, thus, is borne multiplication where you tell your companions in your language 3 TIMES 10. You probably had a word for 3 and for 10, but maybe no word for 30, except to say 3 times 10.
So naturally Time as meaning some future event, so you have 3 times 10 when the 10 enemies come over the ridge to fight you.
AP
Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-18 05:40:56 UTC
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So here, I am looking for the first occurrence of Multiplication done on Earth. No animal other than a pre-human would have done a multiplication in their mind.

I am looking for the first time multiplication was ever done on Earth. To give an example, the first electric motor ever done on Earth was circa 1822 when in Faraday's lab he connected a battery to a device of a wire suspended in a mercury bath with a magnet. What Faraday witnessed was a constant rotation of the wire. The first bow and arrow ever created, I am speculating was the bow used to drill and used to start fires. When one day, someone was playing around with the bow, and by luck, but a straight stick into the bow and pulled it back, released and off went the arrow, hence first bow and arrow.

But when was the first Multiplication to ever take place? Far far earlier than the first bow and arrow. Was it earlier than the first "use of fire" call it "tamed fire". Yes, I think the first multiplication to take place on Earth was before pre humans tamed fire.

The first multiplication had nothing to do with geometry area. Naturally we would think a rectangle area of length times width. But the first use of ** the first knowing of multiplication** involved what turned apes ancestor onto the line to become humans-- rockthrowing.

Do you need multiplication to better throw rocks and stones? That is not obvious. It is obvious to need add to know how many in your tribe, how many in your family. You need subtraction to know who is missing. You need division to know you carve up food for other members. But you do not need multiplication for any animal, until when?

When do you need multiplication?

You need it, or the mind stumbles on multiplication when your tribe of pre-humans sees another tribe that can kill you and your family. You see a enemy with 10 warriors, and you motion to someone to get rocks at the creek. You know 10 fingers means 10 enemy. You motion 3 fingers, then motion 10 fingers. Meaning you want him to get 30 rocks, 3 times 10.

In that tribal language, the word "times" would be the word that means a future event. The future event when the 10 enemy show up for a fight. So 3 times 10 is 30 rocks.

Now, it may not be enemies but rather stones for hunting big animals. Your tribe has 5 hunters, and you motion for someone to go to the creek and get 3 times 5 rocks for the hunting expedition.

And there probably was no word for the number 15. You could flash 5 fingers then 5 fingers then 5 fingers. A flashing 3 times.

AP
Archimedes Plutonium
2017-06-18 10:37:02 UTC
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Now i rescind my argument that the "times" was anticipation of a future event and opt for the idea of flashing the fingers.

So if you flash the 5 fingers of one hand 3 times, it meant 3 times 5 = 15.

I think that was the Earths first multiplication-- hand-finger flashing. That would beg the question of how much of language was sign language in the earliest mathematics.

They probably had a word for enemy but none for the numbers. For a large number they probably displayed ten fingers and ten toes. For larger numbers they would keep flashing 5 fingers of one hand.

What large quantities did they reckon with? Probably the number in their tribe, and the number in their prey animals but most of all they had to communicate the number of rocks to gather for protection and hunting.

So the word for multiply was "times" for the amount of flashing of hands.

AP
b***@gmail.com
2017-06-18 10:44:32 UTC
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Well there is a big error in the assumption that fingers
or signs had an importance in the development of language
or mathematics, since these neandertaler caves were pitch-black.

Neandertalers were not that advanced to have lighting inside
caves, so haptic and olfaction was very important, the
neandertalers had much bigger noses, as described in a

recent survey in the journal paleo mathematics, its also
clear from that multiplication developped from brain farts.
Post by Archimedes Plutonium
So here, I am looking for the first occurrence of Multiplication done on Earth. No animal other than a pre-human would have done a multiplication in their mind.
I am looking for the first time multiplication was ever done on Earth. To give an example, the first electric motor ever done on Earth was circa 1822 when in Faraday's lab he connected a battery to a device of a wire suspended in a mercury bath with a magnet. What Faraday witnessed was a constant rotation of the wire. The first bow and arrow ever created, I am speculating was the bow used to drill and used to start fires. When one day, someone was playing around with the bow, and by luck, but a straight stick into the bow and pulled it back, released and off went the arrow, hence first bow and arrow.
But when was the first Multiplication to ever take place? Far far earlier than the first bow and arrow. Was it earlier than the first "use of fire" call it "tamed fire". Yes, I think the first multiplication to take place on Earth was before pre humans tamed fire.
The first multiplication had nothing to do with geometry area. Naturally we would think a rectangle area of length times width. But the first use of ** the first knowing of multiplication** involved what turned apes ancestor onto the line to become humans-- rockthrowing.
Do you need multiplication to better throw rocks and stones? That is not obvious. It is obvious to need add to know how many in your tribe, how many in your family. You need subtraction to know who is missing. You need division to know you carve up food for other members. But you do not need multiplication for any animal, until when?
When do you need multiplication?
You need it, or the mind stumbles on multiplication when your tribe of pre-humans sees another tribe that can kill you and your family. You see a enemy with 10 warriors, and you motion to someone to get rocks at the creek. You know 10 fingers means 10 enemy. You motion 3 fingers, then motion 10 fingers. Meaning you want him to get 30 rocks, 3 times 10.
In that tribal language, the word "times" would be the word that means a future event. The future event when the 10 enemy show up for a fight. So 3 times 10 is 30 rocks.
Now, it may not be enemies but rather stones for hunting big animals. Your tribe has 5 hunters, and you motion for someone to go to the creek and get 3 times 5 rocks for the hunting expedition.
And there probably was no word for the number 15. You could flash 5 fingers then 5 fingers then 5 fingers. A flashing 3 times.
AP
b***@gmail.com
2017-06-17 10:21:10 UTC
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Hey brain farty!

Well you find your vibrating diagonals, already
shown by the Greek that they are also sides:
Loading Image...

And I guess 4 * 4 = 16 was sometimes expressed as
"4-times" 4 = 16 with two different numeral words.

Platons Dialog Menon (~390 v.Chr.) - griech./ dt. (2.Teil: 79e-86c)
SÔ. tettarôn gar tetrakis estin hekkaideka. ouchi?
Sokrates: Denn von vier ist das Vierfache sechzehn. Nicht?
http://12koerbe.de/pan/menon3.htm
Post by Archimedes Plutonium
Now these others of add, subtract, divide do not bother me, only "times" bothers me because of the connection with the physics parameter of "time as a clock". Almost a apocryphal link up. Why link up time in physics with multiply in math? In Ancient Greeks what was their "multiply and then, their times" or did the have just one term.
Now this is important because there is seem deep mystery as to why intelligent life would be guided like Adam Smith's invisible hand guiding buyers and sellers in economics.
Some invisible god like hand guiding intelligent life to look around and settle upon "times" to be the same as multiply.
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