Discussion:
universe set?
(too old to reply)
David Chmelik
2024-06-18 12:05:45 UTC
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Is the universe set called univrset?
David Chmelik
2024-06-18 12:07:11 UTC
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Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
FromTheRafters
2024-06-18 13:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chmelik
Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
Ross Finlayson
2024-06-18 21:29:54 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Post by David Chmelik
Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".

The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".

The domain of discourse is a usual term.

See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just
"the world".
Ross Finlayson
2024-06-18 21:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by David Chmelik
Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".
The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".
The domain of discourse is a usual term.
See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just
"the world".


"Thomas Forster - Recent developments in Set Theory with a Universal Set"

I don't vouch for this yet it's part of the study, about
things like "New Foundations with Ur-Elements" or
"New Foundations with Universes" and so on.


Here's it's "Null Axiom Theory" or "Universal Axiom Theory",
for example.
Ross Finlayson
2024-06-19 01:45:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by David Chmelik
Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".
The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".
The domain of discourse is a usual term.
See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just
"the world".
http://youtu.be/aHS0VKOM09U
"Thomas Forster - Recent developments in Set Theory with a Universal Set"
I don't vouch for this yet it's part of the study, about
things like "New Foundations with Ur-Elements" or
"New Foundations with Universes" and so on.
Here's it's "Null Axiom Theory" or "Universal Axiom Theory",
for example.
It's often called part of the "extra-ordinary" for Mirimanoff,
as it relates to Kant's "Sublime", about in reflection the
Leibnitz' Monadology as about the Ding-an-Sich.

Let's see, Forster starts talking about Ramsey Theory,
which in a sense is about law(s) of large numbers and
things like whether the existence of long arithmetic
progressions is independent standard theory, like
various conjectures of Goldbach are independent standard
number theory, about that Ramsey theory and about Birkhoff
and the lacunary, is actually about the _applied_ and the
fact that the guaranteed existence of non-standard models,
actually has application, about law(s) of large numbers.

It's like when you hear about Groethendieck universes for
ALGEBRAIC geometry, which is not to be confused with
algebraic GEOMETRY, and various conjectures are actually
independent standard theory.

Forster mentions that a new way to talk about "equi-interpretability"
is to call then "in synonymy", "up to the logical", then as with
regards to quite particular definitions of logical and non-logical,
where for example some have that any restriction of comprehension,
results non-logical objects ("properly" logical). He also mentions
that that means in model theory they model each other or "have
the same models". Then in seems that the Ackermann trick is
sort of presuming that a usual encoding of a set of naturals
can be encoded in a natural, as sort of like a bit of Cohen
forcing or that Hausdorff and "constructible, countable, ...".


I.e., that Peano Arithmetic, has after Goedel a completeness
theorem, in case you've never heard of Goedel's completeness
about learning about Goedel's incompleteness, there's that
PA being "standard" isn't actually decided when of course
there are non-standard models, and extra-ordinary.

Then these weaker "strictly finite" bits are looking roundabout
wrong.

"The thought is that the noumena that they are describing
is the same thing."

Kant's noumena basically reflect on the objects of though,
reason particularly, here the platonic objects of mathematics.

"NF says there's a universal set, and ZF says there isn't."

"They're just two different ways of describing the same mathematics."
That's sort of disagreeable.

"The universe is a boolean algebra." Euh, .... What you get
is that the object is that the universe minus the object is
the context is the same object, "the content is the context".

15:20 = 920s

http://youtu.be/aHS0VKOM09U

This passage from Forster really helps illustrate
that NF and ZF are different.




I'll disagree that PA is tight, simply as that there
are non-standard models of it, while, "ubiquitous ordinals"
is tight.


Alright then if you'd like to know more about universal sets,
there's a usual gentle sort of introduction to some examples.




Mikhail Katz talks about infinitesimals in ZF, and not hyper-reals,
reflecting on the Internal Set theory as with regards to
infinitesimals and Nelson's results that IST and ZFC are co-consistent.
David Chmelik
2024-06-19 09:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Is the universe set called universet?
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
I remember that, or 'universe of discourse' but my professors usually just
wrote the specific set such as N, Z, Q, R, C (in blackboard bold).
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".
The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".
I see. I'm not convinced sets exist, or maybe/likely they do, but not
that set theory rather than number theory should be foundation, such as
explained by mathematical philosopher Mike Hockney. Nevertheless, I
always liked the idea of 'universe set', like the greatest infinity (other
than the universe set's power set, haha).
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
The domain of discourse is a usual term.
See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just "the world".
Do those authors also call it infinite-dimensional space, or is that your
elaboration? Of course, that exists, but I don't know I'd call that a
set, despite contains everything that exists ideally/mentally/spiritually
(which contains all 'atoms'/'matter'/'physis' as illusion within).
Post by Ross Finlayson
http://youtu.be/aHS0VKOM09U
"Thomas Forster - Recent developments in Set Theory with a Universal Set"
I don't vouch for this yet it's part of the study, about things like
"New Foundations with Ur-Elements" or "New Foundations with Universes"
and so on.
There should be new foundations with numbers, whether considered points/
monads or line segments on the number line, or waves.
Post by Ross Finlayson
Here's it's "Null Axiom Theory" or "Universal Axiom Theory",
for example.
Axioms are important, but I noticed for some, if it's unclear what they
mean, and they're not geometrically demonstrated (like most/all Euclid's,
and ones from Pythagorean Theorem to Euler's Formula, etc.) then we might
not know if they ever apply to reality, like I don't 100% know what
'infinite containers' or 'games' mean in relation to reality. Those may
be fun but I prefer ones that describe reality.
Ross Finlayson
2024-06-19 20:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chmelik
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Is the universe set called universet?
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
I remember that, or 'universe of discourse' but my professors usually just
wrote the specific set such as N, Z, Q, R, C (in blackboard bold).
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".
The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".
I see. I'm not convinced sets exist, or maybe/likely they do, but not
that set theory rather than number theory should be foundation, such as
explained by mathematical philosopher Mike Hockney. Nevertheless, I
always liked the idea of 'universe set', like the greatest infinity (other
than the universe set's power set, haha).
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
The domain of discourse is a usual term.
See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just "the world".
Do those authors also call it infinite-dimensional space, or is that your
elaboration? Of course, that exists, but I don't know I'd call that a
set, despite contains everything that exists ideally/mentally/spiritually
(which contains all 'atoms'/'matter'/'physis' as illusion within).
Post by Ross Finlayson
http://youtu.be/aHS0VKOM09U
"Thomas Forster - Recent developments in Set Theory with a Universal Set"
I don't vouch for this yet it's part of the study, about things like
"New Foundations with Ur-Elements" or "New Foundations with Universes"
and so on.
There should be new foundations with numbers, whether considered points/
monads or line segments on the number line, or waves.
Post by Ross Finlayson
Here's it's "Null Axiom Theory" or "Universal Axiom Theory",
for example.
Axioms are important, but I noticed for some, if it's unclear what they
mean, and they're not geometrically demonstrated (like most/all Euclid's,
and ones from Pythagorean Theorem to Euler's Formula, etc.) then we might
not know if they ever apply to reality, like I don't 100% know what
'infinite containers' or 'games' mean in relation to reality. Those may
be fun but I prefer ones that describe reality.
The Domain Principle idea that there exists "the domain" is one
of the ideas entertained by Georg Cantor, often attributed with
the development of uncountability, while du Bois-Reymond at
least discovered the diagonal argument and that since time
immemorial there was aliquot parts and when sets are countably
infinite that there are invertible mappings the bijections
between them, while also that there is density that "half
of the integers are even integers, according to density",
Cantor brought up the domain principle then Cantor's paradox
is so named because the powerset result applied to it would
result a contradiction, it's still called that even though
it contradicts ordinary set theory.

The "extra-ordinary" is the key sort of phrase, coined by
Mirimanoff, to reflect these things that are Sublime ("greater
than themselves").

The "Null Axiom Theory" is "axiomless", a course of "axiomless
natural deduction", while "Universal Axiom Theory" is just
part of the dually-self-infraconsistent nature of that,
"first principles" and "final cause" together.

Then I usually call the whole thing "A Theory", what would
be foundations for philosophy, logic, mathematics, physics,
and science and statistics, physics, .... Physics/Metaphysics, ....

All one theory, ....
Ross Finlayson
2024-12-26 19:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by David Chmelik
Post by David Chmelik
Is the universe set called univrset?
'universet'
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
See for exampler Forster's "Set Theory with a Universal Set".
The idea that a universal set exists is called "Domain Principle"
or "Domainprinzip".
The domain of discourse is a usual term.
See for example Finsler and Boffa, Kunen inconsistency,
set of all sets, order type of ordinals, group of all groups,
infinite-dimensional space, "Continuum", sometimes just
"the world".
http://youtu.be/aHS0VKOM09U
"Thomas Forster - Recent developments in Set Theory with a Universal Set"
I don't vouch for this yet it's part of the study, about
things like "New Foundations with Ur-Elements" or
"New Foundations with Universes" and so on.
Here's it's "Null Axiom Theory" or "Universal Axiom Theory",
for example.
David Chmelik
2024-06-19 08:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by FromTheRafters
Is the universe set called universet?
Domain of Discourse. Usually a blackboard bold (or doublestruck) D is
the symbol.
I remember that, or 'universe of discourse' but my professors usually just
wrote the specific set such as N, Z, Q, R, C (in blackboard bold).
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