Discussion:
How do you have a number line without a first quantity closest to zero?
(too old to reply)
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-03 23:19:14 UTC
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Zero math.

Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-03 23:23:20 UTC
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Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.

Zero math win...
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-04 01:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-04 18:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-04 20:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
For zero math there is a closest quantity to it on math's
quantity line.
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-04 21:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
For zero math there is a closest quantity to it on math's
quantity line.
It's called the "infinitesimal" or "differential".

Next to zero's "differential" (patch) is the next one.

In continuous functions, the infinitesimal is mostly
totally described by the differential (integral calculus).
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-05 18:31:34 UTC
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Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
For zero math there is a closest quantity to it on math's
quantity line.
It's called the "infinitesimal" or "differential".
That must be fully or infinitely divided with no more.
There is no dividing the small beyond the unlimited.
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Next to zero's "differential" (patch) is the next one.
What do you mean by a patch? There is something wrong there...
It is a fundamental first quantity instead.
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
In continuous functions, the infinitesimal is mostly
totally described by the differential (integral calculus).
that is the infinitely small first quantity.

Mitchell Raemsch
Eram semper recta
2020-04-05 21:10:49 UTC
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Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
For zero math there is a closest quantity to it on math's
quantity line.
It's called the "infinitesimal" or "differential".
Delusional idiot. LMAO.
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Next to zero's "differential" (patch) is the next one.
In continuous functions, the infinitesimal is mostly
totally described by the differential (integral calculus).
Ross Finlayson
2024-07-28 16:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
For zero math there is a closest quantity to it on math's
quantity line.
It's called the "infinitesimal" or "differential".
Next to zero's "differential" (patch) is the next one.
In continuous functions, the infinitesimal is mostly
totally described by the differential (integral calculus).
Earle Jones
2020-04-05 17:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
*
Mitch:

Have you considered taking up poetry?
Mathematics is clearly not your bag.

earle
*
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-05 18:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Earle Jones
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
That First quantity is unlimited divided already.
There is no dividing beyond the unlimited.
That is closest to zero.
Zero math win...
The only more division is the unlimited again...
On a number line first after zero is a quantity
that is divided unlimited.
*
Have you considered taking up poetry?
Mathematics is clearly not your bag.
earle
*
Are you avoiding an answer Earle?
Don't you have it?
If you don't have an answer don't argue
against it... it is still real math
that you apparently can't do.
Tell us the answer to the question...

Mitchell Raemsch
Triboluminescent Dingleberries
2020-04-05 18:41:54 UTC
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Do you are have the dumb?

How to a brain for posting?
Roger Smith
2020-04-04 01:55:33 UTC
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Super-idiot
Michael Moroney
2020-04-05 21:07:25 UTC
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I already told you, Mitch, the real numbers are continuous and there is no
"first quantity". Once you think you found your "first quantity", all I have
to do to prove it's not is to divide it by 2 and the quotient is even smaller.
And don't tell me I'm not allowed to divide it. That's not mathematics, and
this is a free country, I can divide all I want by any number I want (except 0,
of course).
FromTheRafters
2020-04-05 23:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
I already told you, Mitch, the real numbers are continuous and there is no
"first quantity". Once you think you found your "first quantity", all I have
to do to prove it's not is to divide it by 2 and the quotient is even
smaller. And don't tell me I'm not allowed to divide it. That's not
mathematics, and this is a free country, I can divide all I want by any
number I want (except 0, of course).
Of course you don't even need the reals for this to be true.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-05 23:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
Michael Moroney
2020-04-05 23:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
And now I draw a point halfway between zero and your point, which is no longer
any sort of "first quantity". So there.
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-06 01:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
And now I draw a point halfway between zero and your point, which is no longer
any sort of "first quantity". So there.
The metrizing ultrafilter has a countable aspect
that reflects all the analytical character of the
real function under countable additivity.

(For measure theory.)

The usual notion of differential patches, regions, or areas,
as sequential and each having a next, is actually a property
of continuity established for example by finding a smaller one.

I.e. it's for a usual definition of continuous function.

It's unfair to differential calculus
and Leibniz' summation notation
for the integral bar
to not have the "differential"
(for: differences).

I.e., definite integration is always about the bounds
and for also where there are no bounds.

I.e., all functions are also piece-wise.

Having a function that ranges from zero to one
in constant differences instead of geometric series
or the usual Zeno's half- and half-again,
embodies for example the usual concept of
monotone or the constant-progression-of: time.

Then that for each instant there's a next follows
from the idea that there exists a time function,
that the continuously evaluated "next", topologically,
in the line, exists and is a thing besides that it's not
except infinitesimally-different from a difference of zero.

So, if you want to be more informed about what the real
numbers have besides what the ordered field has, and
consequences of completeness of the real numbers, topologically,
and for constructive real analysis, infinitesimals are a thing
and handled their own separate way. Actually "standard"
infinitesimals under a definition that works: models of
continuous domains like the real numbers include those
as continuous by line continuity, graphically, by field
continuity, topologically under the usual convention,
and by signal continuity, where again effectively establishing
dense neighborhoods as the topologically.

Here this notion of line continuity and "there are exactly
infinitely-many infinitesimals uniformly regular through [0,1]",
can be ignored with usual formal real analysis after algebra
instead of this "geometric" approach.

But, just because it's ignored, that's not to say that
"at all scales the numbers aren't uniformly regular",
because they always are and throughout.


And, where it's justified, then in the context that
must be referring to a particular definition of
"infinitely-many" and "infinitesimal" that it is so.
I.e., if something wouldn't make sense, only go
making sense of it, including making sense that
"infinity-many" and "infinitesimal" is as simply
for "n-many" and "n'th", courtesy the bounded and
piece-wise together all together as the un-bounded.


So, introducing "infinity" demands rigor, in mathematics.

And, infinity is already very well introduced to mathematics.


If you study or studied calculus you pretty much
must know that differentials are a refinement of differences,
as of n-many here not-less-than-infinitely-many equal (constant)
sized differential regions or patches, as "next" to
each other as infinitesimals would be. The region of
integration, put together of these things all together,
naturally reflects analyticity.

Then, about the number line, simply consider this:
there are points IN the line, each with a next
(line continuity, "equivalency function", "time function", "sweep")
there are points ON the line, as of limits of sequences that are Cauchy
(triangulation, rational and algebraic, ..., complete ordered field)
there are points ABOUT the line, as of signal approximation.

Simply disambiguating the language about what differences notions
of bounds (or ranges) contain values and all the analytical character,
makes for much more simply making sense of different models of
real numbers like
..
R

and
_
R

with R-bar and R-dots as each set-theoretic models
of the continuous domain the real numbers,
one with line continuity, the other field continuity.

Real-valued functions this way quite well hold up.



So, "any" "first quantity" "closest to zero" is an
infinitesimal because it's not a "finite difference"
that is accessible by a deterministic algorithm.

And, mathematics already has them and the usual thing
that people know is that the limit from both sides
establishes meeting in the middle.

I.e., it's a limit of sums and differences besides,
and no different in either and both.


So, please respect that mathematics has thousands of
years of intuitive and formal infinity and infinitesimals.

Also, please respect that there is a modern foundation
and besides there are novel retro-classical foundations,
formalizing and for rigor all sorts of notions of
mathematical infinities and infinitesimals.



So, if you want a number line, that is marked with numbers,
and a first, next, or nearest quantity, when _drawing_ the
line as if _drawn_ at a steady rate in a straight line,
there is drawn an entire segment, to draw all of them,
to draw the first.

This then as simply line-drawing for structure then also
has simple direct axiomatics, besides as what simplicity
offers it up as via natural deduction.

In the integer continuum, the first quantity is one.

In the linear continum, with some iota-value, it's one/infinity.

Iota-values as having consecutive differences that sum to one,
is quite well-defined courtesy exhaustion in the unbounded,
and "standard" or usual results in the entire formality of
the integral calculus and real analysis can all be built up in it.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 02:23:42 UTC
Permalink
There is a first place closest to zero on the number line.
That first place is the first quantity after no quantity place.

Mitchell Raemsch
Nelson
2020-04-06 02:35:40 UTC
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Raemsch brain-free posting sample.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 02:51:47 UTC
Permalink
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?

Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 18:20:10 UTC
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Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.

Mitchell Raemsch
Michael Moroney
2020-04-06 18:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
Me
2020-04-06 18:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But maybe it's an "indivisible quantum", some sort of an "atom"! :-P
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 19:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Me
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and
this point.

So do that and show math that number line...

No. There is first no quantity "named zero" then first quantity
at zero math and first quantity there is no more division...
If you have divided by the unlimited there is no more...
the first quantity is sub finite on the number line.
Post by Me
But maybe it's an "indivisible quantum", some sort of an "atom"! :-P
Right. You admit to a fundamental first quantized...
It is first on the number line after null...

Mitchell Raemsch
Michael Moroney
2020-04-06 19:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and
this point.
So do that and show math that number line...
You actually need that explained?
Call your number "x".
Call my number "y".

My number is calculated thus: y=x/2.
(or, for that matter, y=x/a where a is any real number larger than 1)
Post by Michael Moroney
No. There is first no quantity "named zero" then first quantity
at zero math and first quantity there is no more division...
You can't pass a law that doesn't allow me to divide!
There is no limit to the number of times a number can be divided.
The real numbers are not quantized. They can have any value at all.
Post by Michael Moroney
If you have divided by the unlimited there is no more...
Why not? If I can divide an unlimited number of times, I can divide again
and again and again!

No matter how many times it has been divided, it can *always* be divided once
more!

Once again, proof by contradiction:

Assume x is your so-called "first quantity".
I compute y as x/2.
Since y < x, x cannot be an actual "first quantity".
Therefore, the initial assumption must be false.
Therefore, there cannot be any "first quantity".
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 19:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Me
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But maybe it's an "indivisible quantum", some sort of an "atom"! :-P
No. If you do not have a fundamental fully divided first quantity
how can mathematics draw a real number line?

Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 22:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
The sub finite is real.

Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 22:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
How many number lines do you want to make?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
But how many number lines do you have?
The sub finite is real.
Mitchell Raemsch
Michael Moroney
2020-04-08 18:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-08 19:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...

Mitchell Raemsch
Michael Moroney
2020-04-08 20:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-08 21:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?

Have you even heard of this concept at all?

Answering Mitch's uninformed questions involves
pointing directly to simple mathematical definition.

When he's grasping for definition, not that he listens,
pointing out "we already have definitions for these things",
and, pointing out what they are, for common established references,
goes a lot farther than "shut up, you're too stupid to think".

I.e. a conscientious mathematician eventually admits (forever)
these complementary properties of continuity,
of continua, and, their individua.

Pointing out that the ambiguous is "garbage" doesn't clean it up.
Also, just picking one side of mutual contradiction instead of
picking up both sides and resolving them together, just is ignorance.

So, to be constructive and helpful to Mitch, not that he listens,
but everybody else including experts in mathematical infinitesimals,
it helps not to make the mistake that other people don't have working
definitions that Mitch's grasping for terms has those working definitions
being a working model of those grasping terms, making sense of things,
instead of making nonsense of things.

"Standard" analysis is the body of results after Least Upper Bound
and measure 1.0, defined after the ordered field, if you haven't
heard of "non-Standard" analysis, it's a thing, that just because
something isn't standard doesn't mean it's not analysis.

Otherwise you're welcome to keep dividing things by two,
mathematicians already proved that goes to zero, via an
argument of infinite induction, and rather a deduction as
about whether it "completes", but there's nothing you can
multiply zero by to get back, only a notion of some
infinitesimal iota-value as non-zero at all.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 01:22:28 UTC
Permalink
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 01:27:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
Sergio
2020-04-09 18:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 18:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
Where is your number line without a first quantity?

Mitchell Raemsch Zero math
Sergio
2020-04-09 20:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
Where is your number line without a first quantity?
right here;

Y = m * X + b
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Mitchell Raemsch Zero math
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 20:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
Where is your number line without a first quantity?
right here;
Y = m * X + b
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Mitchell Raemsch Zero math
Show your own number line...
does that have a beginning next to zero?
or do you not have a number line of your own?

Mitchell Raemsch
Sergio
2020-04-09 20:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
Where is your number line without a first quantity?
right here;
Y = m * X + b
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Mitchell Raemsch Zero math
Show your own number line...
does that have a beginning next to zero?
or do you not have a number line of your own?
Mitchell Raemsch
oh, you mean my one dimensional number line, the above was 2 dimensional.

here is my one dimensional number line;

m * X + b where m and b are constants

b is beginning next to zero factor

m is magnifier factor
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 22:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
No quantity math is a winner...
It is a beginning of mathematics.
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Where is your number line without a first quantity?
right here;
Y = m * X + b
That is your equation... where is your number line without a beginning?

Mitchell Raemsch with Zero math...
Chris M. Thomasson
2020-04-09 22:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
That is the sub finite quantity realm...
Zero math comes first...
ZOD's Math is First in line. your Zero math is nothing.
No quantity math is a winner...
It is a beginning of mathematics.
Post by Sergio
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Where is your number line without a first quantity?
right here;
Y = m * X + b
That is your equation... where is your number line without a beginning?
Mitchell Raemsch with Zero math...
1d:

-infinity...0...+infinity

Where did it begin? from zero? Can that be a root point?
Michael Moroney
2020-04-11 20:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
WHich proves there is no such thing as a "first quantity". The quotient gets
smaller and smaller, without end.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-05-01 02:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
WHich proves there is no such thing as a "first quantity". The quotient gets
smaller and smaller, without end.
The Infinitely divided is the end of division.
What is next to zero if not a first fundamental quantity?
Below that if you could divide more would be sub fundamental
of first quantity. It never reaches zero math.

Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch Raemsch
2020-05-01 18:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You can divide the first quantity forever and you would never reach zero.
WHich proves there is no such thing as a "first quantity". The quotient gets
smaller and smaller, without end.
The Infinitely divided is the end of division.
What is next to zero if not a first fundamental quantity?
Below that if you could divide more would be sub fundamental
of first quantity. It never reaches zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?

Mitchell Raemsch
Michael Moroney
2020-05-01 20:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Mitch Raemsch
2020-05-01 21:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Then don't make an argument on what you don't know.
It is the fundamental of it that comes first...
just mark it on your number line or shut up...
FromTheRafters
2020-05-01 22:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Then don't make an argument on what you don't know.
It is the fundamental of it that comes first...
just mark it on your number line or shut up...
It's easy, just find the nth number and then divide by n.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-05-02 00:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Then don't make an argument on what you don't know.
It is the fundamental of it that comes first...
just mark it on your number line or shut up...
It's easy, just find the nth number and then divide by n.
what number is that idiot?
If you can mark zero on the number line you can mark what is next to it.

Mitchell Raemsch
FromTheRafters
2020-05-02 08:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Then don't make an argument on what you don't know.
It is the fundamental of it that comes first...
just mark it on your number line or shut up...
It's easy, just find the nth number and then divide by n.
what number is that idiot?
One, n divided by n is one, there's zero and then one right next to it.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
If you can mark zero on the number line you can mark what is next to it.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sure, it is one. Division is a partial function, you can't divide past
one.
n***@gmail.com
2020-05-02 08:30:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
There is one no quantity or zero marked on every number line.
What is the quantity marked next to that?
I don't know. I can't find it. I keep dividing and every time I come up
with a smaller number so I can't find any "first".
Then don't make an argument on what you don't know.
It is the fundamental of it that comes first...
just mark it on your number line or shut up...
It's easy, just find the nth number and then divide by n.
what number is that idiot?
One, n divided by n is one, there's zero and then one right next to it.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
If you can mark zero on the number line you can mark what is next to it.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sure, it is one. Division is a partial function, you can't divide past
one.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1592589757562676&set=a.397252653763065&type=3&theater
g***@gmail.com
2020-05-02 08:32:11 UTC
Permalink
you cant have 0 0+


without 0-


According to 3 ADJACENT REALS


3AR |- lim_n-->oo 1/n >0
n***@gmail.com
2020-05-02 08:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
you cant have 0 0+
without 0-
According to 3 ADJACENT REALS
3AR |- lim_n-->oo 1/n >0
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1591988167622835&set=a.3972526
Michael Moroney
2020-04-09 13:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.

I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.

Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.

I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.

And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
FromTheRafters
2020-04-09 14:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number
line? How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number
line. That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the
point you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see
your "first quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by
2 and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your
silly little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
Only the integers and naturals even have any notion of one number
having a next number. I limit him to the naturals since he says you
can't subtract past zero or some such nonsense. So, in the naturals
there is a zero and the very next number is one and it cannot be
further divided.
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 00:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.

"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.

The infinitesimals....
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 01:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 01:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
where the quantum is the "1" of the
integer number line, and the first iota-value
or EF(1) is only and example one
"quantized" element of [0,1] (except
that "quantizing" in the usual sense,
is replaced with that it contains all
the character, under the measure, i.e.
it's not the result of the quantizing
approximation, quantized, except that
all together all of them contain the
analytical character, of what they quantize.)

So, when you say "sub-finite", a distinction's
lost or not established, it's not necessary you
care or "need" it for what you want to say,
for what "sub-finite" is here, but, "sub-quantum"
more reflects the ongoings of particulars.

(That the integers are "quanta" on the number line.)

Knowing words helps a lot and choosing the
right words can go a long way for carrying a point.

Here also to say the words
involves knowing the forms,
descriptive mathematics of
the mathematical forms.

The less the better, more or less....

It makes most sense to have good luck in
picking the words when their concepts are
introduced and described.

Because, otherwise it's a matter of canon and effort.


Canonical/original: two best friends.


Pretty much the point is to use the right word,
all the time, here for that I'm used to simply
making up words then finding them in the dictionary.


So, I have a number line with a first quantity right
next to zero, but only immediately and directly through
all the rest of the quantities to 1.0. (The quantity.)

These I call iota-values, also "line-continuity reals"
and (about) "points in a line".

Then the fractions and all the members of the completed
ordered field, here between zero and one and not including
zero and one, are "points on a line". (Field reals also
the completed ordered field.)

That's much simpler than
"there's no way infinity can have clock arithmetic".

I.e., it's justified, too.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 01:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
Quantum is for particles.
Sub finite is for math below finite.

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 02:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
Quantum is for particles.
Sub finite is for math below finite.
Mitchell Raemsch
Same difference.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 02:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
Quantum is for particles.
Sub finite is for math below finite.
Mitchell Raemsch
Same difference.
Your language is SUB par for zero math...
Sergio
2020-04-10 03:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
Quantum is for particles.
Sub finite is for math below finite.
Mitchell Raemsch
Same difference.
Your language is SUB par for zero math...
Zero Math is for Zero.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 02:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
No, actually I haven't. I know what infinitesimals in limits are.
I assumed Mitch just was making things up as he goes, especially since he
uses his own nonstandard terms for everything.
Do they even apply here? I am just toying with the disproof by contradiction
here, there can never be a smallest nonzero positive real since a smaller one
can always be generated. Mitch insists there is a real number for which
division is not allowed or not defined or something, all reals can be divided
by anything other than 0.
I tried the concept of limits where the limit goes to 0 in this case, that
went nowhere with Mitch.
And yes, I know Mitch is ineducable as he insists whatever he thinks up is
ccorrect.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
You can't pretend your number line doesn't
have a beginning quantity...
That is the sub finite divided side below.
Mitchell Raemsch
Sub-finite? No, it's sub-quantum,
Quantum is for particles.
Sub finite is for math below finite.
Mitchell Raemsch
Same difference.
Then you admit sub finite is real...
How do you like that...?
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 00:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Nelson. Are you going to say there is no first place on a number line?
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point. If I can divide it by 2
and get a snaller number, your "first quantity" can't be a first quantity
because it is no longer the smallest number.
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
Have you even heard of this concept at all?
Answering Mitch's uninformed questions involves
pointing directly to simple mathematical definition.
When he's grasping for definition, not that he listens,
pointing out "we already have definitions for these things",
and, pointing out what they are, for common established references,
goes a lot farther than "shut up, you're too stupid to think".
I.e. a conscientious mathematician eventually admits (forever)
these complementary properties of continuity,
of continua, and, their individua.
Pointing out that the ambiguous is "garbage" doesn't clean it up.
Also, just picking one side of mutual contradiction instead of
picking up both sides and resolving them together, just is ignorance.
So, to be constructive and helpful to Mitch, not that he listens,
but everybody else including experts in mathematical infinitesimals,
it helps not to make the mistake that other people don't have working
definitions that Mitch's grasping for terms has those working definitions
being a working model of those grasping terms, making sense of things,
instead of making nonsense of things.
"Standard" analysis is the body of results after Least Upper Bound
and measure 1.0, defined after the ordered field, if you haven't
heard of "non-Standard" analysis, it's a thing, that just because
something isn't standard doesn't mean it's not analysis.
Otherwise you're welcome to keep dividing things by two,
mathematicians already proved that goes to zero, via an
argument of infinite induction, and rather a deduction as
about whether it "completes", but there's nothing you can
multiply zero by to get back, only a notion of some
infinitesimal iota-value as non-zero at all.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.

"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.

The infinitesimals....
Michael Moroney
2020-04-10 01:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
Have you even heard of this concept at all?
Answering Mitch's uninformed questions involves
pointing directly to simple mathematical definition.
When he's grasping for definition, not that he listens,
pointing out "we already have definitions for these things",
and, pointing out what they are, for common established references,
goes a lot farther than "shut up, you're too stupid to think".
I.e. a conscientious mathematician eventually admits (forever)
these complementary properties of continuity,
of continua, and, their individua.
Pointing out that the ambiguous is "garbage" doesn't clean it up.
Also, just picking one side of mutual contradiction instead of
picking up both sides and resolving them together, just is ignorance.
So, to be constructive and helpful to Mitch, not that he listens,
but everybody else including experts in mathematical infinitesimals,
it helps not to make the mistake that other people don't have working
definitions that Mitch's grasping for terms has those working definitions
being a working model of those grasping terms, making sense of things,
instead of making nonsense of things.
"Standard" analysis is the body of results after Least Upper Bound
and measure 1.0, defined after the ordered field, if you haven't
heard of "non-Standard" analysis, it's a thing, that just because
something isn't standard doesn't mean it's not analysis.
Otherwise you're welcome to keep dividing things by two,
mathematicians already proved that goes to zero, via an
argument of infinite induction, and rather a deduction as
about whether it "completes", but there's nothing you can
multiply zero by to get back, only a notion of some
infinitesimal iota-value as non-zero at all.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
I understand that. I have seen (but don't really remember) many proofs how the
reals are continuous. It underlies my Mitch "debating" how continuous, dense
reals cannot have a smallest nonzero positive number. So how is my explanation
incorrect? Any (positive) number cannot be any sort of "first" since it can
always be divided by 2 (or any other number > 1) and get an even smaller
number. It's like the "largest prime number" proof by contradiction, one can
always find a larger (or another) prime number.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 01:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
Have you even heard of this concept at all?
Answering Mitch's uninformed questions involves
pointing directly to simple mathematical definition.
When he's grasping for definition, not that he listens,
pointing out "we already have definitions for these things",
and, pointing out what they are, for common established references,
goes a lot farther than "shut up, you're too stupid to think".
I.e. a conscientious mathematician eventually admits (forever)
these complementary properties of continuity,
of continua, and, their individua.
Pointing out that the ambiguous is "garbage" doesn't clean it up.
Also, just picking one side of mutual contradiction instead of
picking up both sides and resolving them together, just is ignorance.
So, to be constructive and helpful to Mitch, not that he listens,
but everybody else including experts in mathematical infinitesimals,
it helps not to make the mistake that other people don't have working
definitions that Mitch's grasping for terms has those working definitions
being a working model of those grasping terms, making sense of things,
instead of making nonsense of things.
"Standard" analysis is the body of results after Least Upper Bound
and measure 1.0, defined after the ordered field, if you haven't
heard of "non-Standard" analysis, it's a thing, that just because
something isn't standard doesn't mean it's not analysis.
Otherwise you're welcome to keep dividing things by two,
mathematicians already proved that goes to zero, via an
argument of infinite induction, and rather a deduction as
about whether it "completes", but there's nothing you can
multiply zero by to get back, only a notion of some
infinitesimal iota-value as non-zero at all.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
I understand that. I have seen (but don't really remember) many proofs how the
reals are continuous. It underlies my Mitch "debating" how continuous, dense
reals cannot have a smallest nonzero positive number. So how is my explanation
incorrect? Any (positive) number cannot be any sort of "first" since it can
always be divided by 2 (or any other number > 1) and get an even smaller
number. It's like the "largest prime number" proof by contradiction, one can
always find a larger (or another) prime number.
What comes first on the number line?
No. There is a point of indivisibility
for first quantity expressed on the number
line... it is the sub finite that is divisible
no more. It has already been fully
infinitely divided...

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 02:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
Haven't you heard of (contiguous) mathematical infinitesimals
before?
Have you even heard of this concept at all?
Answering Mitch's uninformed questions involves
pointing directly to simple mathematical definition.
When he's grasping for definition, not that he listens,
pointing out "we already have definitions for these things",
and, pointing out what they are, for common established references,
goes a lot farther than "shut up, you're too stupid to think".
I.e. a conscientious mathematician eventually admits (forever)
these complementary properties of continuity,
of continua, and, their individua.
Pointing out that the ambiguous is "garbage" doesn't clean it up.
Also, just picking one side of mutual contradiction instead of
picking up both sides and resolving them together, just is ignorance.
So, to be constructive and helpful to Mitch, not that he listens,
but everybody else including experts in mathematical infinitesimals,
it helps not to make the mistake that other people don't have working
definitions that Mitch's grasping for terms has those working definitions
being a working model of those grasping terms, making sense of things,
instead of making nonsense of things.
"Standard" analysis is the body of results after Least Upper Bound
and measure 1.0, defined after the ordered field, if you haven't
heard of "non-Standard" analysis, it's a thing, that just because
something isn't standard doesn't mean it's not analysis.
Otherwise you're welcome to keep dividing things by two,
mathematicians already proved that goes to zero, via an
argument of infinite induction, and rather a deduction as
about whether it "completes", but there's nothing you can
multiply zero by to get back, only a notion of some
infinitesimal iota-value as non-zero at all.
"Continuous" of course means infinitely dense,
and close, in any magnitude or measure.
"Contiguous" is "next to each other, also dense",
and under any measure as a magnitude.
The infinitesimals....
I understand that. I have seen (but don't really remember) many proofs how the
reals are continuous. It underlies my Mitch "debating" how continuous, dense
reals cannot have a smallest nonzero positive number. So how is my explanation
incorrect? Any (positive) number cannot be any sort of "first" since it can
always be divided by 2 (or any other number > 1) and get an even smaller
number. It's like the "largest prime number" proof by contradiction, one can
always find a larger (or another) prime number.
For "what is the way of continuity" there is
"what are some few ways of continuity", that
in the expectations continuity always holds.

Here for example
"density" (their neighborhood of close neighbors) and
"gaplessness" (their neighborhood of bounded ranges) and
"contiguity" (their indistinguishability),
these are properties to be held up for all sorts of
mathematical theorems. Anything that has the properties
is the thing, theoretically that there's a model that
is itself an "automatic" "implementation", of the thing.

So, density and gaplessness give for the usual sense of
continuity, in the neighborhood and locally in points,
while contiguity (or, linearity, the linear continuum,
but of course "the linear continuum" is also "dense" and
"gapless") that the elements are "indistinguishable" except
in their order and having exactly one previous and one next
(or the ends or bounds).

Then conveniently the simplest one of those "collections"
(in set theory as that a set is defined by its elements),
these points or "constant" infinitesimals (regular infinitesimals),
are most simply those between exactly and only zero and one.

I.e., if the infinitesimals all _together_ are non-zero,
at all, the simplest consideration of those, is: 1.0,
divided into an infinity of values with values that
range from 0 to 1, each one the same constant distance
from its previous and next as each other one is to theirs.

I.e., "this constant monotone increasing" of a range,
from zero that goes all the way to 1.0 and in fact
defines what "1.0" in the resulting measure "is",
has some "constant infinitesimals" (besides that
they're "regular" in density either from support,
points building or from covers, the rational),
these "constant infinitesimals" I've called iota-values
as iota is another word for a tiny or the tiniest bit.

I.e., "the least iota" "isn't given" not even as a gesture,
here as that its insignificance is insignificant,
here as that an iota is the least, and that all the
iota-values make 1.0. (And [0, 1.0], the range between
zero and 1.0 as for example constant in constant time.


Then at least that's a very clear, usual notion, that
mathematics has TWO models of real numbers, as sets:
totally separate non-interchangeable things. Where
they have the same "real-value" in the numbers as
according to equality or inequality, real-valued,
the sets that are the values in the sets, falls under
building two structures:


all the fractions and closing them, (the algebraic), AND, seeing Least Upper Bound

OR

[0,1] as real and then then for each integer,
in a _much_ simpler model of for example only
the natural or non-negative integers: that
each real number is just an integer part,
and the part after the radix.

Set 1: equivalence classes of sequences that are Cauchy
Set 2: {integer-part, non-integer-part}

Building the various (and as so, different) results for
each of these sets of all things about real numbers
(equations and inequalities) is as usual and simple
as counting on your fingers and keeping the change.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 02:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Zero math... Now that you lost the argument what do you have to say?

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 03:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math... Now that you lost the argument what do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
No argument here.
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 03:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math... Now that you lost the argument what do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
No argument here.
Of course.
Zero math won you...
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-09 01:26:01 UTC
Permalink
line?
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by Mitch Raemsch
How are you going to draw it without that?
Mitchell Raemsch
Right after zero's place there is a first quantity's on the number line.
That is after zero math a sub finite.
Until I come along and add a point halfway between 0 and this point.
But how many number lines do you have?
I am placing the halfway point on your number line, between 0 and the point
you claim is the "first quantity". Once I do that, anyone can see your "first
quantity" is no first quantity.
So you say you can keep dividing that first quantity?
It's not a "first quantity". That is my whole point.
Then there is no first on a number line?
Dividing that is the sub finite...
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Those points you put in between are all the sub finite's...
What TF is a "sub finite"? Are you making up garbage again to save your silly
little claim?
Your dividing is what is creating my sub finite.
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
You should know that is what your dividing means in math.
Zero math first then sub finite quantities you claim
you make by your continued division...
I guess you really are making up garbage again.
If you want to divide the first quantity on your number line
you are creating your sub finite...
Zero math... sub finite...

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-08 19:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
And now I draw a point halfway between zero and your point, which is no longer
any sort of "first quantity". So there.
The metrizing ultrafilter has a countable aspect
that reflects all the analytical character of the
real function under countable additivity.
(For measure theory.)
The usual notion of differential patches, regions, or areas,
as sequential and each having a next, is actually a property
of continuity established for example by finding a smaller one.
I.e. it's for a usual definition of continuous function.
It's unfair to differential calculus
and Leibniz' summation notation
for the integral bar
to not have the "differential"
(for: differences).
I.e., definite integration is always about the bounds
and for also where there are no bounds.
I.e., all functions are also piece-wise.
Having a function that ranges from zero to one
in constant differences instead of geometric series
or the usual Zeno's half- and half-again,
embodies for example the usual concept of
monotone or the constant-progression-of: time.
Then that for each instant there's a next follows
from the idea that there exists a time function,
that the continuously evaluated "next", topologically,
in the line, exists and is a thing besides that it's not
except infinitesimally-different from a difference of zero.
So, if you want to be more informed about what the real
numbers have besides what the ordered field has, and
consequences of completeness of the real numbers, topologically,
and for constructive real analysis, infinitesimals are a thing
and handled their own separate way. Actually "standard"
infinitesimals under a definition that works: models of
continuous domains like the real numbers include those
as continuous by line continuity, graphically, by field
continuity, topologically under the usual convention,
and by signal continuity, where again effectively establishing
dense neighborhoods as the topologically.
Here this notion of line continuity and "there are exactly
infinitely-many infinitesimals uniformly regular through [0,1]",
can be ignored with usual formal real analysis after algebra
instead of this "geometric" approach.
But, just because it's ignored, that's not to say that
"at all scales the numbers aren't uniformly regular",
because they always are and throughout.
And, where it's justified, then in the context that
must be referring to a particular definition of
"infinitely-many" and "infinitesimal" that it is so.
I.e., if something wouldn't make sense, only go
making sense of it, including making sense that
"infinity-many" and "infinitesimal" is as simply
for "n-many" and "n'th", courtesy the bounded and
piece-wise together all together as the un-bounded.
So, introducing "infinity" demands rigor, in mathematics.
And, infinity is already very well introduced to mathematics.
If you study or studied calculus you pretty much
must know that differentials are a refinement of differences,
as of n-many here not-less-than-infinitely-many equal (constant)
sized differential regions or patches, as "next" to
each other as infinitesimals would be. The region of
integration, put together of these things all together,
naturally reflects analyticity.
there are points IN the line, each with a next
(line continuity, "equivalency function", "time function", "sweep")
there are points ON the line, as of limits of sequences that are Cauchy
(triangulation, rational and algebraic, ..., complete ordered field)
there are points ABOUT the line, as of signal approximation.
Simply disambiguating the language about what differences notions
of bounds (or ranges) contain values and all the analytical character,
makes for much more simply making sense of different models of
real numbers like
..
R
and
_
R
with R-bar and R-dots as each set-theoretic models
of the continuous domain the real numbers,
one with line continuity, the other field continuity.
Real-valued functions this way quite well hold up.
So, "any" "first quantity" "closest to zero" is an
infinitesimal because it's not a "finite difference"
that is accessible by a deterministic algorithm.
And, mathematics already has them and the usual thing
that people know is that the limit from both sides
establishes meeting in the middle.
I.e., it's a limit of sums and differences besides,
and no different in either and both.
So, please respect that mathematics has thousands of
years of intuitive and formal infinity and infinitesimals.
Also, please respect that there is a modern foundation
and besides there are novel retro-classical foundations,
formalizing and for rigor all sorts of notions of
mathematical infinities and infinitesimals.
So, if you want a number line, that is marked with numbers,
and a first, next, or nearest quantity, when _drawing_ the
line as if _drawn_ at a steady rate in a straight line,
there is drawn an entire segment, to draw all of them,
to draw the first.
This then as simply line-drawing for structure then also
has simple direct axiomatics, besides as what simplicity
offers it up as via natural deduction.
In the integer continuum, the first quantity is one.
In the linear continum, with some iota-value, it's one/infinity.
Iota-values as having consecutive differences that sum to one,
is quite well-defined courtesy exhaustion in the unbounded,
and "standard" or usual results in the entire formality of
the integral calculus and real analysis can all be built up in it.
Todorov and Hall have forth this position:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.03798

In short, line continuity besides field continuity
admits a mathematically _rigorous_ treatment.

In short, the line's "next" to zero is only accessible
"in" the line, while all algebra in the field is "on"
the line, that in terms of membership of a set that is
a model of a continuous domain in function theory,
those two different sets with their connections about
the integer lattice, and integer continuum, help more
thoroughly establish formal means for continuum analysis
(and continuum mechanics).

At some point "infinitesimals don't exist, duh", will
become passe and out-dated, while of course the formal
development with limit theory for the formalization of
the fundamental theorems of calculus _without_ the
definition of infinitesimals (and infinity) still
stands up on its own for "standard" real analysis.

I.e., "going" from zero to one, in the line,
and "stopping" at a/b, in the field,
are neatly and simply de-constructed then reconciled,
for at least two set-theoretic models of a continuous
domain, and for their cardinalities, and the uncountability
of the powerset of the naturals, and the countable
character under additivity of measure theory.

The "real-valued" then is usually sufficiently abstract
to represent results in either form, of course. I.e.,
there's usual talk of real-valued continuous functions
and results about them in (Newton and Leibniz', and
Riemann and Lebesgue and Stieltjes') calculus.

Then the "quasi-invariant" measure theory is in
results in Ramsey theory for various laws of
large numbers. (All otherwise quite "standard".)


So, reals with infinitesimals and reals with fractions
are to be kept mutually consistent, not ignorant.
(Replete.)
Ross Finlayson
2024-07-28 16:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
And now I draw a point halfway between zero and your point, which is no longer
any sort of "first quantity". So there.
The metrizing ultrafilter has a countable aspect
that reflects all the analytical character of the
real function under countable additivity.
(For measure theory.)
The usual notion of differential patches, regions, or areas,
as sequential and each having a next, is actually a property
of continuity established for example by finding a smaller one.
I.e. it's for a usual definition of continuous function.
It's unfair to differential calculus
and Leibniz' summation notation
for the integral bar
to not have the "differential"
(for: differences).
I.e., definite integration is always about the bounds
and for also where there are no bounds.
I.e., all functions are also piece-wise.
Having a function that ranges from zero to one
in constant differences instead of geometric series
or the usual Zeno's half- and half-again,
embodies for example the usual concept of
monotone or the constant-progression-of: time.
Then that for each instant there's a next follows
from the idea that there exists a time function,
that the continuously evaluated "next", topologically,
in the line, exists and is a thing besides that it's not
except infinitesimally-different from a difference of zero.
So, if you want to be more informed about what the real
numbers have besides what the ordered field has, and
consequences of completeness of the real numbers, topologically,
and for constructive real analysis, infinitesimals are a thing
and handled their own separate way. Actually "standard"
infinitesimals under a definition that works: models of
continuous domains like the real numbers include those
as continuous by line continuity, graphically, by field
continuity, topologically under the usual convention,
and by signal continuity, where again effectively establishing
dense neighborhoods as the topologically.
Here this notion of line continuity and "there are exactly
infinitely-many infinitesimals uniformly regular through [0,1]",
can be ignored with usual formal real analysis after algebra
instead of this "geometric" approach.
But, just because it's ignored, that's not to say that
"at all scales the numbers aren't uniformly regular",
because they always are and throughout.
And, where it's justified, then in the context that
must be referring to a particular definition of
"infinitely-many" and "infinitesimal" that it is so.
I.e., if something wouldn't make sense, only go
making sense of it, including making sense that
"infinity-many" and "infinitesimal" is as simply
for "n-many" and "n'th", courtesy the bounded and
piece-wise together all together as the un-bounded.
So, introducing "infinity" demands rigor, in mathematics.
And, infinity is already very well introduced to mathematics.
If you study or studied calculus you pretty much
must know that differentials are a refinement of differences,
as of n-many here not-less-than-infinitely-many equal (constant)
sized differential regions or patches, as "next" to
each other as infinitesimals would be. The region of
integration, put together of these things all together,
naturally reflects analyticity.
there are points IN the line, each with a next
(line continuity, "equivalency function", "time function", "sweep")
there are points ON the line, as of limits of sequences that are Cauchy
(triangulation, rational and algebraic, ..., complete ordered field)
there are points ABOUT the line, as of signal approximation.
Simply disambiguating the language about what differences notions
of bounds (or ranges) contain values and all the analytical character,
makes for much more simply making sense of different models of
real numbers like
..
R
and
_
R
with R-bar and R-dots as each set-theoretic models
of the continuous domain the real numbers,
one with line continuity, the other field continuity.
Real-valued functions this way quite well hold up.
So, "any" "first quantity" "closest to zero" is an
infinitesimal because it's not a "finite difference"
that is accessible by a deterministic algorithm.
And, mathematics already has them and the usual thing
that people know is that the limit from both sides
establishes meeting in the middle.
I.e., it's a limit of sums and differences besides,
and no different in either and both.
So, please respect that mathematics has thousands of
years of intuitive and formal infinity and infinitesimals.
Also, please respect that there is a modern foundation
and besides there are novel retro-classical foundations,
formalizing and for rigor all sorts of notions of
mathematical infinities and infinitesimals.
So, if you want a number line, that is marked with numbers,
and a first, next, or nearest quantity, when _drawing_ the
line as if _drawn_ at a steady rate in a straight line,
there is drawn an entire segment, to draw all of them,
to draw the first.
This then as simply line-drawing for structure then also
has simple direct axiomatics, besides as what simplicity
offers it up as via natural deduction.
In the integer continuum, the first quantity is one.
In the linear continum, with some iota-value, it's one/infinity.
Iota-values as having consecutive differences that sum to one,
is quite well-defined courtesy exhaustion in the unbounded,
and "standard" or usual results in the entire formality of
the integral calculus and real analysis can all be built up in it.
Ross Finlayson
2025-01-01 18:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero no quantity then first quantity on the number line...
one divided by the unlimited.
And now I draw a point halfway between zero and your point, which is no longer
any sort of "first quantity". So there.
The metrizing ultrafilter has a countable aspect
that reflects all the analytical character of the
real function under countable additivity.
(For measure theory.)
The usual notion of differential patches, regions, or areas,
as sequential and each having a next, is actually a property
of continuity established for example by finding a smaller one.
I.e. it's for a usual definition of continuous function.
It's unfair to differential calculus
and Leibniz' summation notation
for the integral bar
to not have the "differential"
(for: differences).
I.e., definite integration is always about the bounds
and for also where there are no bounds.
I.e., all functions are also piece-wise.
Having a function that ranges from zero to one
in constant differences instead of geometric series
or the usual Zeno's half- and half-again,
embodies for example the usual concept of
monotone or the constant-progression-of: time.
Then that for each instant there's a next follows
from the idea that there exists a time function,
that the continuously evaluated "next", topologically,
in the line, exists and is a thing besides that it's not
except infinitesimally-different from a difference of zero.
So, if you want to be more informed about what the real
numbers have besides what the ordered field has, and
consequences of completeness of the real numbers, topologically,
and for constructive real analysis, infinitesimals are a thing
and handled their own separate way. Actually "standard"
infinitesimals under a definition that works: models of
continuous domains like the real numbers include those
as continuous by line continuity, graphically, by field
continuity, topologically under the usual convention,
and by signal continuity, where again effectively establishing
dense neighborhoods as the topologically.
Here this notion of line continuity and "there are exactly
infinitely-many infinitesimals uniformly regular through [0,1]",
can be ignored with usual formal real analysis after algebra
instead of this "geometric" approach.
But, just because it's ignored, that's not to say that
"at all scales the numbers aren't uniformly regular",
because they always are and throughout.
And, where it's justified, then in the context that
must be referring to a particular definition of
"infinitely-many" and "infinitesimal" that it is so.
I.e., if something wouldn't make sense, only go
making sense of it, including making sense that
"infinity-many" and "infinitesimal" is as simply
for "n-many" and "n'th", courtesy the bounded and
piece-wise together all together as the un-bounded.
So, introducing "infinity" demands rigor, in mathematics.
And, infinity is already very well introduced to mathematics.
If you study or studied calculus you pretty much
must know that differentials are a refinement of differences,
as of n-many here not-less-than-infinitely-many equal (constant)
sized differential regions or patches, as "next" to
each other as infinitesimals would be. The region of
integration, put together of these things all together,
naturally reflects analyticity.
there are points IN the line, each with a next
(line continuity, "equivalency function", "time function", "sweep")
there are points ON the line, as of limits of sequences that are Cauchy
(triangulation, rational and algebraic, ..., complete ordered field)
there are points ABOUT the line, as of signal approximation.
Simply disambiguating the language about what differences notions
of bounds (or ranges) contain values and all the analytical character,
makes for much more simply making sense of different models of
real numbers like
..
R
and
_
R
with R-bar and R-dots as each set-theoretic models
of the continuous domain the real numbers,
one with line continuity, the other field continuity.
Real-valued functions this way quite well hold up.
So, "any" "first quantity" "closest to zero" is an
infinitesimal because it's not a "finite difference"
that is accessible by a deterministic algorithm.
And, mathematics already has them and the usual thing
that people know is that the limit from both sides
establishes meeting in the middle.
I.e., it's a limit of sums and differences besides,
and no different in either and both.
So, please respect that mathematics has thousands of
years of intuitive and formal infinity and infinitesimals.
Also, please respect that there is a modern foundation
and besides there are novel retro-classical foundations,
formalizing and for rigor all sorts of notions of
mathematical infinities and infinitesimals.
So, if you want a number line, that is marked with numbers,
and a first, next, or nearest quantity, when _drawing_ the
line as if _drawn_ at a steady rate in a straight line,
there is drawn an entire segment, to draw all of them,
to draw the first.
This then as simply line-drawing for structure then also
has simple direct axiomatics, besides as what simplicity
offers it up as via natural deduction.
In the integer continuum, the first quantity is one.
In the linear continum, with some iota-value, it's one/infinity.
Iota-values as having consecutive differences that sum to one,
is quite well-defined courtesy exhaustion in the unbounded,
and "standard" or usual results in the entire formality of
the integral calculus and real analysis can all be built up in it.
konyberg
2020-04-06 19:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
There is a numberline where 0 is a point.
Are you thinking about timelines where 0 is (>0, 1). There is no year 0.
KON
Eram semper recta
2020-04-06 20:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by konyberg
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
There is a numberline where 0 is a point.
0 is never reified as a point because it is not a distance. There is no such thing as 0 distance because 0 is not a number. 0 has no common measure with any other size, hence it can't be a number.

0 metres = 0 kilometres = 0 miles

0 doesn't give a fuck about the unit which measures every other number.
Post by konyberg
Are you thinking about timelines where 0 is (>0, 1). There is no year 0.
KON
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 21:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by konyberg
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Zero math.
Mitchell Raemsch
There is a numberline where 0 is a point.
What then is closest next to zero when you draw your number line?
Zero math is first... then zero positivity math...

Mitchell Raemsch
Post by konyberg
Are you thinking about timelines where 0 is (>0, 1). There is no year 0.
KON
Andy
2020-04-06 21:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Do you are have the dumb? Again?

Did you brane fell out?
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-06 22:21:16 UTC
Permalink
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?

Mitchell Raemsch
Randy
2020-04-09 03:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Do you are have the dumb? Again?

Did you brane fell out?
djoyce099
2020-04-09 22:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 01:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.

MItchell Raemsch
djoyce099
2020-04-10 05:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.
MItchell Raemsch
Maybe like this ---

ab·so·lute ze·ro
noun
noun: absolute zero; plural noun: absolute zeros

The lowest temperature that is theoretically possible, at which the motion of
particles that constitutes heat would be minimal. It is zero on the Kelvin
scale, equivalent to –273.15°C or –459.67°F.

Wow, look at that. –459.67°F.

Dan
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 05:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.
MItchell Raemsch
Maybe like this ---
ab·so·lute ze·ro
noun
noun: absolute zero; plural noun: absolute zeros
The lowest temperature that is theoretically possible, at which the motion of
particles that constitutes heat would be minimal. It is zero on the Kelvin
scale, equivalent to –273.15°C or –459.67°F.
Wow, look at that. –459.67°F.
Dan
What are you saying dan?
djoyce099
2020-04-10 14:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.
MItchell Raemsch
Maybe like this ---
ab·so·lute ze·ro
noun
noun: absolute zero; plural noun: absolute zeros
The lowest temperature that is theoretically possible, at which the motion of
particles that constitutes heat would be minimal. It is zero on the Kelvin
scale, equivalent to –273.15°C or –459.67°F.
Wow, look at that. –459.67°F.
Dan
What are you saying dan?
–459.67°F
That is the first measurement in the physical world.
Dividing that by two --->oo will bring you closer and closer to zero on the
negative side of zero. ;-)

Dan
Ross A. Finlayson
2020-04-10 15:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.
MItchell Raemsch
Maybe like this ---
ab·so·lute ze·ro
noun
noun: absolute zero; plural noun: absolute zeros
The lowest temperature that is theoretically possible, at which the motion of
particles that constitutes heat would be minimal. It is zero on the Kelvin
scale, equivalent to –273.15°C or –459.67°F.
Wow, look at that. –459.67°F.
Dan
Well you might consider the difference between
"zero degrees Celsius water freezes" and
"100 degrees Celsius water boils" and
"the absolute cessation of thermodynamic kinetics",
"absolute zero" or "zero kelvins", 0.0 K.

There's a model in physics where, to model
the physical characteristics of the system
besides the "quantities": that _less than_
zero, where there is NO such thing as
"one below zero" or "negative absolute temperature",
that absolute values are of course non-negative,
in the model it's the range for "values" of
_infinitely hot_ temperature, as of a phase change.

I.e. these scientists (physicists here) say
"negative zero is hotter than the Sun". But,
what they mean is about the overpressure and
in potential, that it's just a way to model
the "Absolute" difference, between "no temperature"
and "infinite temperature".

So, besides 0 and 100 degrees for water freezing
and boiling, the universal solvent at usual pressures,
there are other ranges in materials of effective
thermodynamic for example thermoelectric properties.

The "absolute" here is the scale that is absolute,
it goes from 0 to infinity (or is bounded...),
the idea that 99999 is the same as ----1 and
rolls over to zero, is an introduction of clock
arithmetic or the modular to what is the extent.

In machine arithmetic this can be familiar as
that the arbitrary-precision unsigned word,
rolls over to zero.

The "Absolute" then is in the universals and
here for phase transitions and the gradient.

Just because it's "universals", that still
of course means that (for example) the
"universals of a traffic light" is still
only "green, yellow, and red". Of course
all the finite languages and finite automata
are each closed. Then, over those is just
a universal automata (way over those) and
of course simply all the automatics of synchronicity.

Because the laws of thermodynamics are so true
in all matters of equilibrium, and it's kinetics,
the absolute in scale suffices at mostly all scales,
here for the floor's and ceiling's of ranges,
of effects in gradient and transitions,
for example water's freezing and boiling as 0-100.

Many systems in physics are modeled by the classical,
and that means there's an origin for co-ordinates,
and they are the sum of their linear inputs in the
system (including the angular). There is also
the "potential", that basically reflects the complement,
in the universals, to the local classical, with
"potential theory, the theory of potential",
and "classical physics".

Relativity's a good example of a potential theory,
about for example light's speed as a limit of phase
transitions, but of course after that it's framed,
to be useful in a framework of values from classical
physics, for the classical. The "Absolute" then
here is of the entire space and in universals,
these days basically about how the "cosmological
constant", or "curvature of space-time", is a
value with these properties:
(greater than or equal to zero, negative numbers reserved)
not zero (there's a sum of finites, any non-zero)
not greater than zero (looking all around, looks like zero)
that is: a mathematical infinitesimal.

The mathematics of infinitesimals are of course totally usual
in physics where continuum mechanics are field numbers and
particle statistics. Algebra and group theory is usually
hiding all this, then for where real "infinitesimals"
(not zero and not finite) exist in physics, in terms
of quantities (that all add up back to "physics").
Mitch Raemsch
2020-04-10 17:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Man uses his relative zero and an absolute.

Mitchell Raemsch
Ross Finlayson
2024-07-28 16:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross A. Finlayson
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
Post by djoyce099
Post by Mitch Raemsch
The first quantity after no quantity math is the sub finite.
What do you have to say?
Mitchell Raemsch
Mitch, have you ever heard of the TV show, Life Below Zero?
Good show, you'll have to watch it sometime even though you are against anything
less than zero. ;-)
I am not against man's relative zero
but there also is an absolute with
nothing left.
MItchell Raemsch
Maybe like this ---
ab·so·lute ze·ro
noun
noun: absolute zero; plural noun: absolute zeros
The lowest temperature that is theoretically possible, at which the motion of
particles that constitutes heat would be minimal. It is zero on the Kelvin
scale, equivalent to –273.15°C or –459.67°F.
Wow, look at that. –459.67°F.
Dan
Well you might consider the difference between
"zero degrees Celsius water freezes" and
"100 degrees Celsius water boils" and
"the absolute cessation of thermodynamic kinetics",
"absolute zero" or "zero kelvins", 0.0 K.
There's a model in physics where, to model
the physical characteristics of the system
besides the "quantities": that _less than_
zero, where there is NO such thing as
"one below zero" or "negative absolute temperature",
that absolute values are of course non-negative,
in the model it's the range for "values" of
_infinitely hot_ temperature, as of a phase change.
I.e. these scientists (physicists here) say
"negative zero is hotter than the Sun". But,
what they mean is about the overpressure and
in potential, that it's just a way to model
the "Absolute" difference, between "no temperature"
and "infinite temperature".
So, besides 0 and 100 degrees for water freezing
and boiling, the universal solvent at usual pressures,
there are other ranges in materials of effective
thermodynamic for example thermoelectric properties.
The "absolute" here is the scale that is absolute,
it goes from 0 to infinity (or is bounded...),
the idea that 99999 is the same as ----1 and
rolls over to zero, is an introduction of clock
arithmetic or the modular to what is the extent.
In machine arithmetic this can be familiar as
that the arbitrary-precision unsigned word,
rolls over to zero.
The "Absolute" then is in the universals and
here for phase transitions and the gradient.
Just because it's "universals", that still
of course means that (for example) the
"universals of a traffic light" is still
only "green, yellow, and red". Of course
all the finite languages and finite automata
are each closed. Then, over those is just
a universal automata (way over those) and
of course simply all the automatics of synchronicity.
Because the laws of thermodynamics are so true
in all matters of equilibrium, and it's kinetics,
the absolute in scale suffices at mostly all scales,
here for the floor's and ceiling's of ranges,
of effects in gradient and transitions,
for example water's freezing and boiling as 0-100.
Many systems in physics are modeled by the classical,
and that means there's an origin for co-ordinates,
and they are the sum of their linear inputs in the
system (including the angular). There is also
the "potential", that basically reflects the complement,
in the universals, to the local classical, with
"potential theory, the theory of potential",
and "classical physics".
Relativity's a good example of a potential theory,
about for example light's speed as a limit of phase
transitions, but of course after that it's framed,
to be useful in a framework of values from classical
physics, for the classical. The "Absolute" then
here is of the entire space and in universals,
these days basically about how the "cosmological
constant", or "curvature of space-time", is a
(greater than or equal to zero, negative numbers reserved)
not zero (there's a sum of finites, any non-zero)
not greater than zero (looking all around, looks like zero)
that is: a mathematical infinitesimal.
The mathematics of infinitesimals are of course totally usual
in physics where continuum mechanics are field numbers and
particle statistics. Algebra and group theory is usually
hiding all this, then for where real "infinitesimals"
(not zero and not finite) exist in physics, in terms
of quantities (that all add up back to "physics").
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