Discussion:
How many different unit fractions are lessorequal than all unit fractions?
(too old to reply)
WM
2024-09-02 17:07:58 UTC
Permalink
How many different unit fractions are lessorequal than all unit
fractions? The correct answer is: one unit fraction. If you claim more
than one (two or three or infintely many), then these more must be
equal. But different unit fractions are different and not equal to each
other.

Another answer is that no unit fraction is lessorequal than all unit
fractions. That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0. There are no unit
fractions existing at all.

Therefore there is only the one correct answer given above.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-02 17:19:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are lessorequal than all unit
fractions? The correct answer is: one unit fraction. If you claim more
than one (two or three or infintely many), then these more must be
equal. But different unit fractions are different and not equal to each
other.
Another answer is that no unit fraction is lessorequal than all unit
fractions. That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0. There are no unit
fractions existing at all.
Therefore there is only the one correct answer given above.
Regards, WM
Nope, because there does not exist AHY unit fraction that is less than
or equal to ALL Unit fractions, as any unit fraction you might claim to
be that one has a unit fraction smaller than itself, so it wasn't the
smallest.

The problem with your NUF, is that it is trying to count something from
and uncountable end, one that doesn't actually have an end.

Thus, if we try to find a value of y such that y = NUF(x) where x is > 0
but also a finite value, we find that such NUF doesn't exist, because it
has an essentially inconsistant definition.

Your logic that tries to make it valid has just blown up your mind into
smithereens.
WM
2024-09-02 20:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are lessorequal than all unit
fractions? The correct answer is: one unit fraction. If you claim more
than one (two or three or infintely many), then these more must be
equal. But different unit fractions are different and not equal to
each other.
Another answer is that no unit fraction is lessorequal than all unit
fractions. That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0. There are no unit
fractions existing at all.
Therefore there is only the one correct answer given above.
Nope, because there does not exist AHY unit fraction that is less than
or equal to ALL Unit fractions,
Impossible because then NUF will never increase. Then there are no unit
fractions.
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to
be that one has a unit fraction smaller than itself, so it wasn't the
smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions but becomes invalid in
the dark domain.
Post by Richard Damon
The problem with your NUF, is that it is trying to count something from
and uncountable end, one that doesn't actually have an end.
The unit fractions end before zero.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-02 21:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are lessorequal than all unit
fractions? The correct answer is: one unit fraction. If you claim
more than one (two or three or infintely many), then these more must
be equal. But different unit fractions are different and not equal to
each other.
Another answer is that no unit fraction is lessorequal than all unit
fractions. That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0. There are no unit
fractions existing at all.
Therefore there is only the one correct answer given above.
Nope, because there does not exist AHY unit fraction that is less than
or equal to ALL Unit fractions,
Impossible because then NUF will never increase. Then there are no unit
fractions.
Which just shows the error in the "definition" of NUF.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to be that one has a unit
fraction smaller than itself, so it wasn't the smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions but becomes invalid in
the dark domain.
But all the unit fractions are visible. You agreed to that you self as
you said if n is visible, so will be n+1.

Thus, there is no smallest visible unit fraction as there can't be a
last one.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
The problem with your NUF, is that it is trying to count something
from and uncountable end, one that doesn't actually have an end.
The unit fractions end before zero.
No, they don't end, they have a bound that is outside of themselves, but
have no final member.
Post by WM
Regards, WM
WM
2024-09-03 10:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Which just shows the error in the "definition" of NUF.
There is no error.
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to be that one has a unit
fraction smaller than itself, so it wasn't the smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions but becomes invalid in
the dark domain.
But all the unit fractions are visible.
All which you can see, yes. But there are many which you cannot see.
Post by Richard Damon
Thus, there is no smallest visible unit fraction as there can't be a
last one.
Unit fractions are fixed points on the real line which differ from each
other. Therefore there is a first one. It cannot be seen. Therefore
there are dark unit fractions.

Regards, WM
WM
2024-09-03 11:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Which just shows the error in the "definition" of NUF.
There is no error.
Sure there is,
What is it? Note that better mathematicians than you have accepted the
definition of NUF(x).
Post by WM
Unit fractions are fixed points on the real line which differ from
each other. Therefore there is a first one. It cannot be seen.
Therefore there are dark unit fractions.
That is not correct logic.
What?
Unit fractions are fixed points on the real line?
They differ from eaxh other?

Regards, WM
Post by WM
each other
Jim Burns
2024-09-03 04:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to be
that one has a unit fraction smaller than itself,
so it wasn't the smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions
but becomes invalid in the dark domain.
The darkᵂᴹ domain
between 0 and visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions
is empty.

Each positive point is undercut by
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions, and thus
each positive point is not darkᵂᴹ.

⎛ Assume otherwise.
⎜ Assume x > 0 is not.undercut by
⎜ visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

⎜ β ≥ x > 0 is the least.upper.bound of
⎜ points.not.undercut by visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

⎜ ½⋅β is not.undercut.

⎜ 2⋅β is undercut.
⎜ visibleᵂᴹ ⅟k < 2⋅β
⎜ visibleᵂᴹ ¼⋅⅟k < ½⋅β
⎜ ½⋅β is undercut.

⎝ Contradiction.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
The problem with your NUF, is that
it is trying to count something
from and uncountable end,
one that doesn't actually have an end.
The unit fractions end before zero.
The lower.end of unit fractions
is not a visibleᵂᴹ unit.fraction ⅟k > ⅟(k+1)
is not a darkᵂᴹ unit fraction (not.existing)
is not anything not a unit.fraction.

The lower.end of unit fractions
is not.
WM
2024-09-03 10:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to be
that one has a unit fraction smaller than itself,
so it wasn't the smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions
but becomes invalid in the dark domain.
The darkᵂᴹ domain
 between 0 and visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions
is empty.
Then you could see the smallest unit fraction. Remember that they are
fixed points with non-empty gaps on the real line. Hence there is a
first one.
Post by Jim Burns
Each positive point is undercut by
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions,
No. Only each visible positive point is undercut by
visible unit.fractions.
Post by Jim Burns
⎛ Assume otherwise.
Assume that there is no first unit fraction. The alternative would be
more first unit fractions, i.e., real nonsense.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
The unit fractions end before zero.
The lower.end of unit fractions
is not.
Then NUF(x) would remain at 0. It does not.

Regards, WM
WM
2024-09-04 19:10:46 UTC
Permalink
If the smallest unit.fraction existed,
you could see it
positive and undercut by
a visibleᵂᴹ smaller.than.smallest unit.fraction.
But you can't see that.
The smallest unit fraction doesn't exist.
Either ∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0 is wrong or Peano is wrong.
Peano has been generalized from the small natural numbers.
"All different unit fractions are different" however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-05 00:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
If the smallest unit.fraction existed,
you could see it
positive and undercut by
a visibleᵂᴹ smaller.than.smallest unit.fraction.
But you can't see that.
The smallest unit fraction doesn't exist.
Either ∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0 is wrong or Peano is wrong.
Why?
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from the small natural numbers.
"All different unit fractions are different" however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.
Regards, WM
And all ARE different as there is always a space between them, but that
space gets arbitrary small (but still finite.)

You just can't seem to handle the concept of ARBITRARILY small, and
think you can somehow "name" that.

That naming is a property of FINITE sets, not unbounded sets.
WM
2024-09-05 14:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Either ∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0 is wrong or Peano is wrong.
Why?
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from the small natural numbers.
"All different unit fractions are different" however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.
And all ARE different as there is always a space between them, but that
space gets arbitrary small (but still finite.)
NUF(x) increases from 0 to ℵo. But it cannot increase to ℵo at one
point x > 0 because at every point there is at most one unit fraction.
.Before ℵo there come 1, 2, 3, ...

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-06 03:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Either ∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0 is wrong or Peano is wrong.
Why?
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from the small natural numbers.
"All different unit fractions are different" however is a basic
truth. Therefore I accept the latter.
And all ARE different as there is always a space between them, but
that space gets arbitrary small (but still finite.)
NUF(x) increases from 0 to ℵo. But it cannot increase to ℵo at one point
x > 0 because at every point there is at most one unit fraction. .Before
ℵo there come 1, 2, 3, ...
Regards, WM
But since there is not "first" point, NUF(x) just doesn't exist if the
domain is just the finite values.

NUF(x) can only be defined if x is in some post-finite set that defines
values as unit fractions in that post-finite value.

Things like 1/(w-1), 1/(w-2), ...

This mean that when we "count" we count as:


0, 1, 2, 3, 4, .... w-4, w-3, w-2, w-1, w, w+1, w+2,...

where we shift from the natural numbers to your post-finite values as we
pass through the ... and then into that "normal" transfinite value when
we get to w.
WM
2024-09-05 13:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Either
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
is wrong or Peano is wrong.
...or natural numbers aren't what you think they are.
That is possible. My arguments hold only under the premise of actual
infinity showing that Hilbert's hotel is nonsense because the set of
natural numbers cannot be extended. If all rooms are occupied than no
guest can leave his room for a not occupied room. (When I was in USA or
the first time, I asked in a Hilton whether they had free rooms. They
laughed.)
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from
the small natural numbers.
Peano describes the finite natural numbers.
'Finite' doesn't need to be 'small'.
Finite is much larger than Peano or you could/can imagine.
Post by WM
"All different unit fractions are different"
however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.
You also accept quantifier shifts,
which breaks your logicᵂᴹ.
Quantifier shifts are unreliable.
Do you believe that it needs a shift to state:
All different unit fractions are different.
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
I can see no shift.

Regards, WM
Jim Burns
2024-09-05 18:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by WM
Either
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
is wrong or Peano is wrong.
...or
natural numbers aren't what you think they are.
That is possible.
My arguments hold only under
the premise of actual infinity
Apparently, it's because
(in)finiteness isn't what you think it is
that
natural numbers aren't what you think they are.

⎛ In a set with an infinite linear order,
⎜ at least one nonempty subset has fewer than two ends.

⎜ In a set with a finite linear order,
⎜ no nonempty subset has fewer than two ends.

⎜ Sets have different orders, but
⎝ no set has both an infinite and a finite order.

⎛ < is a finite linear order of B
⎜ < has,
⎜ for each nonempty S ⊆ B, two ends.

⎜ x ∉ B
⎜ Extend < to <ₓ for B∪{x}

⎜ nonempty Sₓ ⊆ B∪{x}
⎜ Sₓ\{x} ⊆ B
⎜ Sₓ\{x} has two ends (except Sₓ\{x}={})
⎜ (min.Sₓ\{x} and max.Sₓ\{x})

⎜ x in Sₓ
⎜ either
⎜ replaces an end of Sₓ\{x}
⎜ (Sₓ has two ends, one is x)
⎜ or
⎜ doesn't replace an end of Sₓ\{x}
⎜ (Sₓ has two ends, neither is x)

⎜ <ₓ has,
⎜ for each nonempty Sₓ ⊆ B∪{x}, two ends.
⎝ <ₓ is a finite linear order of B∪{x}

Therefore,
if B has a finite order,
then B∪{x} has a finite order.


A set with a finite order is a finite set.

A set with an infinite order is an infinite set.

A set with neither a finite nor an infinite order
is unusual, and
a counter.example to the Axiom of Choice, and
not any set or collection which we are discussing.

A set with both a finite and an infinite order
requires impossibilities, and
is not.
Post by WM
My arguments hold only under
the premise of actual infinity
showing that Hilbert's hotel is nonsense
because the set of natural numbers cannot be extended.
If all rooms are occupied
than no guest can leave his room for a not occupied room.
(When I was in USA or the first time,
I asked in a Hilton whether they had free rooms.
They laughed.)
Yes, imagine
someone "teaching" about mathematics
who thinks that
an infinite ordered set has
two ends in each of its nonempty subsets.
Very funny.
Post by WM
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from
the small natural numbers.
Peano describes the finite natural numbers.
'Finite' doesn't need to be 'small'.
Finite is much larger than
Peano or you could/can imagine.
Consider an ordinal β as {α:α<β}
β = {α:α<β}
β+1 = {α:α<β}∪{β}

Define ω as the first transfinite ordinal.
β < ω ⇔ {α:α<β} is finite

From up.post,
finite {α:α<β} ⇒ finite {α:α<β}∪{β}
finite β ⇒ finite β+1
β < ω ⇒ β+1 < ω

⎛ Define (ω-1)+1 = ω

⎜ ω-1 < ω ⇒ (ω-1)+1 < ω
⎜ ω-1 ≥ ω ⇒ (ω-1)+1 > ω
⎝ (ω-1)+1 ≠ ω

Therefore, ω-1 doesn't exist.
Post by WM
Finite is much larger than
Peano or you could/can imagine.
Insisting that ω-1 exists and that,
for b ≠ 0 and β < ω, β-1 exists
is
insisting that ω is finite.

The most frugal explanation of your claim is that
you simply do not know what 'finite' means.

Billions of people don't know what 'finite' means,
and also live successful, fulfilling lives.
However,
nearly all of them aren't doing their best
to spread their ignorance as far as they can.
Post by WM
Post by WM
"All different unit fractions are different"
however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.
You also accept quantifier shifts,
which breaks your logicᵂᴹ.
Quantifier shifts are unreliable.
All different unit fractions are different.
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
I can see no shift.
It needs a shift to conclude from
( for each ⅟j: there is ⅟k≠⅟j: ⅟k < ⅟j
that
( there is ⅟k: for each ⅟j≠⅟k: ⅟k < ⅟j

Have you evolved on that topic?
WM
2024-09-05 20:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Insisting that ω-1 exists and that,
for b ≠ 0 and β < ω, β-1 exists
is
insisting that ω is finite.
No.
Post by Jim Burns
The most frugal explanation of your claim is that
you simply do not know what 'finite' means.
Finite means that you can count from one end to the other. Infinite
means that it is impossible to count from one end to the other.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
All different unit fractions are different.
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
I can see no shift.
It needs a shift to conclude from
( for each ⅟j: there is ⅟k≠⅟j: ⅟k < ⅟j
that
( there is ⅟k: for each ⅟j≠⅟k: ⅟k < ⅟j
Have you evolved on that topic?
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I
conclude the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0 and
never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.

Try to understand that.

Regards, WM
Python
2024-09-05 22:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Insisting that ω-1 exists and that,
for b ≠ 0 and β < ω, β-1 exists
is
insisting that ω is finite.
No.
Post by Jim Burns
The most frugal explanation of your claim is that
you simply do not know what 'finite' means.
Finite means that you can count from one end to the other. Infinite
means that it is impossible to count from one end to the other.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
All different unit fractions are different.
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
I can see no shift.
It needs a shift to conclude from
( for each ⅟j: there is ⅟k≠⅟j: ⅟k < ⅟j
that
( there is ⅟k: for each ⅟j≠⅟k: ⅟k < ⅟j
Have you evolved on that topic?
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I
conclude the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0 and
never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Moebius
2024-09-05 22:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Python
[...] and never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
No one knows. :-P

(We hat the same "discussion" in dsm. To no end.)
Moebius
2024-09-05 22:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Python
[...] and never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
No one knows. :-P

(We had the same "discussion" in dsm. To no end.)
Moebius
2024-09-05 22:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
Post by Python
[...] and never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
No one knows. :-P
(We had the same "discussion" in dsm. To no end.)
On the other hand, since NUF is constant on (0, oo) we might accept his
claim anyway. :-P

After all, NFU does not increase on (0, oo) at all. :-)
Moebius
2024-09-05 22:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
Post by Python
[...] and never, at no x [e IR, x > 0], NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
No one knows. :-P
(We had the same "discussion" in dsm. To no end.)
On the other hand, since NUF is constant on (0, oo) we might accept his
claim anyway. :-P

After all, NFU does not increase on (0, oo) at all. :-)
WM
2024-09-06 12:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
On the other hand, since NUF is constant on (0, oo)
NUF(0) = 0.
NUF(x) grows in the positive real numbers.
It cannot grow by more than 1 at any real number.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 02:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Moebius
On the other hand, since NUF is constant on (0, oo)
NUF(0) = 0.
NUF(x) grows in the positive real numbers.
It cannot grow by more than 1 at any real number.
Regards, WM
And thus grows to infinity in the sub-finite values between 0 and the
positive real numbers.

It can not be defined otherwise.

So, there isn't a smallest unit fraction, but only a smallest sub-finite
unit fraction that is the reciprical of some post-finite value which is
above all the infinite number of finite natural numbers.
WM
2024-09-06 12:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Python
Post by WM
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I
conclude the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0 and
never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1.
It does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.

Regards, WM
joes
2024-09-06 12:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I
conclude the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0 and
never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
WM
2024-09-06 12:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1

Regards, WM
Python
2024-09-06 13:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1
What you wrote above is a function associating a function to a function.

For instance [f -> f + 1](sin) = [x -> sin(x) + 1]

Definitely NOT what you intended. Try to write what you mean in proper
algebra (Hint: you'll notice you can't).
WM
2024-09-06 20:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1
What you wrote above is a function associating a function to a function.
No it is a value changing to this value + 1.

Regards, WM
Python
2024-09-07 09:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1
What you wrote above is a function associating a function to a function.
No it is a value changing to this value + 1.
So it is another value. A value does not change.

Meanwhile you are still unable to provide a sound algebraic definition
of "increasing at a point" for a function.
WM
2024-09-07 10:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1. It
does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1
What you wrote above is a function associating a function to a function.
No it is a value changing to this value + 1.
So it is another value. A value does not change.
The value is a function of x. It can change when x changes.

Regards, WM
joes
2024-09-07 11:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1.
It does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
What exactly happens at those points?
The simplest action possible in mathematics: f --> f + 1
What you wrote above is a function associating a function to a function.
No it is a value changing to this value + 1.
So it is another value. A value does not change.
The value is a function of x. It can change when x changes.
We are getting closer to a definition, but the difference is still
visible :P How much does x need to change?
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
Moebius
2024-09-07 11:29:42 UTC
Permalink
[...] it is a value changing to this value + 1.
Where exactly does it "chance"?
[...] A value does not change.
Meanwhile you are still unable to provide a sound algebraic definition
of "increasing at a point" [...].
He rejects the notion of a "jump" (at some point). :-)
Moebius
2024-09-07 11:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
[...] it is a value changing to this value + 1.
Where exactly does it "chance"?
***@Mckenheim: NUBF(0) = 0 (no "change"!). For all x > 0: NUF(x) =
aleph_0 (no "change" at any x).
Post by Moebius
[...] A value does not change.
Meanwhile you are still unable to provide a sound algebraic definition
of "increasing at a point" [...].
He rejects the notion of a "jump" (at some point). :-)
WM
2024-09-07 13:07:16 UTC
Permalink
For all x > 0: NUF(x) = aleph_0 (no "change" at any x)
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions and their distances do not fit
into every interval (0, x). The distance between any pair of unit
fractions is larger.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 13:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
For all x > 0: NUF(x) = aleph_0 (no "change" at any x)
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions and their distances do not fit
into every interval (0, x). The distance between any pair of unit
fractions is larger.
Regards, WM
Of course they do.

I guess you are still stuck on the fact that Achilles can't pass the
Turtle as the sum of the times of each movement to where he reaches the
previous turle location can't be convergent.

You just don't understand that the for ANY finite distance, there exists
a pair of unit fractions that are closer than that.

Sorry, you are just proving your stupidity.
WM
2024-09-07 13:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
 > For all x > 0: NUF(x) = aleph_0 (no "change" at any x)
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions and their distances do not fit
into every interval (0, x). The distance between any pair of unit
fractions is larger.
Of course they do.
The distance is made of 2^ℵo points. Every x > 0 can mean 3 points.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 14:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
 > For all x > 0: NUF(x) = aleph_0 (no "change" at any x)
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions and their distances do not fit
into every interval (0, x). The distance between any pair of unit
fractions is larger.
Of course they do.
The distance is made of 2^ℵo points. Every x > 0 can mean 3 points.
Regards, WM
In other words you are just admitting your being stupid.

Every X is just the point itself, not "3 points".

And, there is no reason to add up all the combinations of distances,
just the ordered set of each unit fraction to its next smaller.

All those add up to less than x, so they fit.

Sorry, you are just proving how stupid your are.
WM
2024-09-07 12:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
[...] it is a value changing to this value + 1.
Where exactly does it "chance"?
It, NUF(x), changes at every x = 1/n for n ∈ ℕ.

NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count more
different unit fractions 1/n, 1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical because
they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 12:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Moebius
[...] it is a value changing to this value + 1.
Where exactly does it "chance"?
It, NUF(x), changes at every x = 1/n for n ∈ ℕ.
NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count more
different unit fractions 1/n,  1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical because
they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .
Regards, WM
And thus is always has a value of aleph_0 for all x > 0, since there is
always aleph_0 unit fractions below and finite positive x value.

In doesn't "increase by one" at any value of x, because aleph_0 + 1 =
aleph_0 by the mathematics of trans-finite numbers.

Between 0 and positive x, it just jumps, as that is an accumulation
point for the unit fractions, which have no "smallest" value to increase
by one at.

Thus, your verbal description of what NUF(x) should be is just incorrect
because it is based on misconceptions.

To allow it to step the way you want, you need its domain to include a
sub-finite set of numbers that are the reciprocals of some post-finite
number that are abve the infinite set of Natural Numbers.

Sorry, that is just your requirements to allow NUF(x) to exist the way
you have defined it. Since you have shown your mathematics can't even
handle the full set of the Natural Numbers, you are not going to be able
to handle these sub/post-finite numbers.
WM
2024-09-07 13:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count more
different unit fractions 1/n,  1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical
because they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .
And thus is always has a value of aleph_0 for all x > 0, since there is
always aleph_0 unit fractions below and finite positive x value.
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions cannot fit into every interval (0,
x). The distance between two unit fractions already is larger. And if
you claim that ℵo unit fractions exist, then you must accept that their
distances do exist too.

By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 13:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count
more different unit fractions 1/n,  1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical
because they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .
And thus is always has a value of aleph_0 for all x > 0, since there
is always aleph_0 unit fractions below and finite positive x value.
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions cannot fit into every interval (0,
x). The distance between two unit fractions already is larger. And if
you claim that ℵo unit fractions exist, then you must accept that their
distances do exist too.
By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.
Regards, WM
Of course the can. Let N = floor(1/x)

Then we can put 1/(N+1), 1/(N+2), 1/(N+3), ... 1/(N+n), ... for all
finite additions n, all aleph_0 of them into that interval.

Show me a value of x that doesn't hold.

Note, the distance between all of them exists, but the sum of the
distances between of all the unit fractions is just 1, and the sum of
the distances between all of the unit fractions smaller than x is less
than x.

The concept of finite but unboundedly small seems beyound your minds
ability to process.
joes
2024-09-07 13:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count more
different unit fractions 1/n,  1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical
because they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .
And thus is always has a value of aleph_0 for all x > 0, since there is
always aleph_0 unit fractions below and finite positive x value.
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions cannot fit into every interval (0,
x). The distance between two unit fractions already is larger. And if
you claim that ℵo unit fractions exist, then you must accept that their
distances do exist too.
By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.
Why can they not „fit”?
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
WM
2024-09-07 13:45:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by joes
Post by WM
By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.
Why can they not „fit”?
Because ℵo unit fractions have ℵo gaps. We can use one of the gaps as x > 0.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 14:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.
Why can they not „fit”?
Because ℵo unit fractions have ℵo gaps. We can use one of the gaps as x
Post by joes
0.
Regards, WM
But you started with that x, so it was fixed to begin with.

From that x, we can build aleph_0 unit fractions below it.

You are just showing you don't understand what you are talking about.
Python
2024-09-07 14:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
By the way this is independent of the existence of NUF.
Why can they not „fit”?
Because ℵo unit fractions have ℵo gaps. We can use one of the gaps as
x  > 0.
Regards, WM
But you started with that x, so it was fixed to begin with.
From that x, we can build aleph_0 unit fractions below it.
You are just showing you don't understand what you are talking about.
Sure he is. But he's not the only one on Usenet (Hachel, Olcott, etc.)

The real issue here is that THE GUY IS TEACHING IN AN ACADEMIC
INSTITUTION IN GERMANY!!!
Python
2024-09-07 14:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) changes by 1 because a change by more at any x would count
more different unit fractions 1/n,  1/m, 1/k, ... which are identical
because they are the same x = 1/n = 1/m = 1/k = ... .
And thus is always has a value of aleph_0 for all x > 0, since there
is always aleph_0 unit fractions below and finite positive x value.
Stop that nonsense. ℵo unit fractions cannot fit into every interval (0,
x).
Of course they can.

"There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom" — Richard Feynman.
Post by WM
The distance between two unit fractions already is larger.
Some are, but for ℵo pairs of them they be arbitrary small
(i.e. < x).

How can you be so wrong on such elementary stuff Crank Mückenheim?
FromTheRafters
2024-09-06 18:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Python
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I conclude
the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0 and never, at no
x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
WM
2024-09-06 20:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by Python
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
ℕ c ℝ.

Regards, WM
FromTheRafters
2024-09-06 22:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by Python
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
ℕ c ℝ.
So what? There is no natural number of unit fractions less than any
positive real or natural number. You said x was real in another post
and here you claim it is natural. The output of your function is a
constant Aleph_zero not a continuum.
Ross Finlayson
2024-09-06 23:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by Python
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
ℕ c ℝ.
So what? There is no natural number of unit fractions less than any
positive real or natural number. You said x was real in another post and
here you claim it is natural. The output of your function is a constant
Aleph_zero not a continuum.
Some number theorists have that there's a point at infinity
and it's natural that way.

The first "counterexample in topology" in "Counterexamples in Topology"
is that there's a smallest non-zero iota-value.

When there are at least three models of real numbers,

line-reals
field-reals
signal-reals

after an Integer Continuum a la Scotists and before a
Long-Line Continuum a la duBois-Reymond, and there are
at least three law(s) of large numbers, and at least
three models of Cantor Space the square, sparse, and signal,
in a world where Vitali and Hausdorff already proved the
existence of doubling-spaces and doubling-measures before
there were Banach and Tarski, then it gets into that
"natural" is of a more replete surrounds than counting numbers.
FromTheRafters
2024-09-07 10:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by Python
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
ℕ c ℝ.
So what? There is no natural number of unit fractions less than any
positive real or natural number. You said x was real in another post and
here you claim it is natural. The output of your function is a constant
Aleph_zero not a continuum.
Some number theorists have that there's a point at infinity
and it's natural that way.
The first "counterexample in topology" in "Counterexamples in Topology"
is that there's a smallest non-zero iota-value.
When there are at least three models of real numbers,
line-reals
field-reals
signal-reals
after an Integer Continuum a la Scotists and before a
Long-Line Continuum a la duBois-Reymond, and there are
at least three law(s) of large numbers, and at least
three models of Cantor Space the square, sparse, and signal,
in a world where Vitali and Hausdorff already proved the
existence of doubling-spaces and doubling-measures before
there were Banach and Tarski, then it gets into that
"natural" is of a more replete surrounds than counting numbers.
However, if one desires to add two plus four, it is not necessary to
use complex numbers as your domain and codomain just because the
naturals are contained in the complex number system. This, a form of
the K.I.S.S. priciple. He wants to use the reals so he can pretend that
there is a smooth sweep across all values in the interval. In reality
each of his values is jumped to and there are Aleph_zero of them as
each is defined as next (successor function) to the previous.
Ross Finlayson
2024-09-07 15:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by WM
Post by Python
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
Make up your mind, is x real or natural.
ℕ c ℝ.
So what? There is no natural number of unit fractions less than any
positive real or natural number. You said x was real in another post and
here you claim it is natural. The output of your function is a constant
Aleph_zero not a continuum.
Some number theorists have that there's a point at infinity
and it's natural that way.
The first "counterexample in topology" in "Counterexamples in Topology"
is that there's a smallest non-zero iota-value.
When there are at least three models of real numbers,
line-reals
field-reals
signal-reals
after an Integer Continuum a la Scotists and before a
Long-Line Continuum a la duBois-Reymond, and there are
at least three law(s) of large numbers, and at least
three models of Cantor Space the square, sparse, and signal,
in a world where Vitali and Hausdorff already proved the
existence of doubling-spaces and doubling-measures before
there were Banach and Tarski, then it gets into that
"natural" is of a more replete surrounds than counting numbers.
However, if one desires to add two plus four, it is not necessary to use
complex numbers as your domain and codomain just because the naturals
are contained in the complex number system. This, a form of the K.I.S.S.
priciple. He wants to use the reals so he can pretend that there is a
smooth sweep across all values in the interval. In reality each of his
values is jumped to and there are Aleph_zero of them as each is defined
as next (successor function) to the previous.
"Keep it simple, stupid", is reasonable but at some point it's
too dumb, even though everyone always hauls out the old "according
to Einstein, things should be as simple as possible, no, even
simpler", at some point in time that's too dumb.

As a continuous domain or the linear continuum, there are only
and everywhere and all real numbers between zero and one,
and there being three models of them indicates _variously_
their construction and access.

Paucity and a natural elegance in being trim is appreciated,
this is the all of mathematics' continuous domains and the
linear continuum in all its roles, a bit of book-keeping
has that at some point it's simpler to have all three and
keep track of their differences than one that gets dumb.
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 02:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Python
Post by WM
You are mistaken. I do not conclude the latter from the former. I
conclude the latter from the fact that NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0
and never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
What the Hell could mean "to increase at an x" ?
Example: The function f(x) = [x] increases at every x ∈ ℕ by 1.
The function NUF(x) increases at every x = unit fraction 1/n by 1.
It does not increase at 0 because 0 is not a unit fraction.
Regards, WM
Except that is can't because there is no "smallest" unit fraction to
count from.

Thus, either NUF(x) increases at some sub-finite values, or it doesn't
exists.

Sorry, you just don't understand that you need to show existance and not
just presume it.
Jim Burns
2024-09-06 00:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by WM
Either
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
is wrong or Peano is wrong.
...or
natural numbers aren't what you think they are.
That is possible.
Insisting that ω-1 exists and that,
for b ≠ 0 and β < ω, β-1 exists
is
insisting that ω is finite.
I should have mentioned β+1 and well.order.
But, β+1 is β∪{β}, and,
ordinal.ness means well.ordered.ness.
Post by WM
No.
Peano refers to those β = {α:α<β} such that
⎛ {α:α<β} is well.ordered
⎜ ∀α: 0<α≦β ⇒ 0≦α-1<β (stepped.down)
⎝ ∀α: 0≦α≦β ⇒ 0<α+1≦β+1 (stepped.up)

The Peano axioms are a different way of describing
the same numbers.

----
The condition for cisfinite induction
P(0) ∧ ∀β<ω:P(β)⇒P(β+1)
is the condition for no.first.counter.example
¬∃γ<ω:( ¬P(γ) ∧ (γ=0 ∨ P(γ-1)) )

Because they're ordinals,
no.first.counter.example requires no.counter.example.
No counter.example: induction.

The well.ordered stepped.down stepped.up numbers
are inductively.valid.

----
Consider {α:α<β}
Extend < from {α:α<β} to {α:α<β}∪{β} = {α:α<ᵦβ+1}
where {α:α<β} ᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵦ β

0 = {α:α<0} = {} is well.ordered.
if {α:α<β} is well.ordered,
then {α:α<ᵦβ+1} is well.ordered.

0 = {α:α<0} = {} is stepped.down.
if {α:α<β} is stepped.down,
then {α:α<ᵦβ+1} is stepped.down.

0 = {α:α<0} = {} is stepped.up.
if {α:α<β} is stepped.up,
then {α:α<ᵦβ+1} is stepped.up.

By induction,
the inductively.valid numbers
are well.ordered stepped.down stepped.up.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by WM
Either
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
is wrong or Peano is wrong.
The most frugal explanation of your claim is that
you simply do not know what 'finite' means.
Finite means that
you can count from one end to the other.
Infinite means that
it is impossible to count from one end to the other.
It is impossible to count from ⅟1 down to
_anything_ below the visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions,
because
there is no step across
any ⅟ℕᵈᵉᶠ ᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵉᵃᶜʰ ⅟ℕᵈᵃʳᵏ split,
because
each step starting in ⅟ℕᵈᵉᶠ ends in ⅟ℕᵈᵉᶠ.

Analogously, ω is on the far side of
the cisfinite ᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵉᵃᶜʰ transfinite split,
and there is no step from ω-1 to ω

tl;dr
ω-1 does not exist.
Any 'ω' for which 'ω-1' exists is
a fake 'ω' NOT on the far side of ℕᵈᵉᶠ ᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵉᵃᶜʰ ℕᵈᵃʳᵏ
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
All different unit fractions are different.
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
I can see no shift.
It needs a shift to conclude from
( for each ⅟j: there is ⅟k≠⅟j: ⅟k < ⅟j
that
( there is ⅟k: for each ⅟j≠⅟k: ⅟k < ⅟j
Have you evolved on that topic?
You are mistaken.
I do not conclude the latter from the former.
I conclude the latter from the fact that
NUF(0) = 0 and NUF(x>0) > 0
and never, at no x, NUF can increase by more than 1.
Try to understand that.
x > 0 ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x

You're welcome.
Jim Burns
2024-09-04 20:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
If the smallest unit.fraction existed,
you could see it
My argument is that
an existing smallest unit.fraction requires impossibles.

Therefore, an existing smallest unit.fraction is not.
Post by WM
positive and undercut by
a visibleᵂᴹ smaller.than.smallest unit.fraction.
But you can't see that.
The smallest unit fraction doesn't exist.
Either
∀n ∈ ℕ: 1/n - 1/(n+1) > 0
is wrong or Peano is wrong.
...or natural numbers aren't what you think they are.
Post by WM
Peano has been generalized from
the small natural numbers.
Peano describes the finite natural numbers.
'Finite' doesn't need to be 'small'.

⎛ The natural numbers are well.ordered.
⎜ Each non.0 natural number and each non.0 before it
⎜ has a predecessor.natural,
⎝ Each natural number has a successor.natural.

However large 𝔊 is,
if
⎛ [0…𝔊]ᵒʳᵈ is well.ordered
⎜ ∀k ∈ (0…𝔊]ᵒʳᵈ: [0…𝔊)ᵒʳᵈ ∋ k-1
⎝ ∀j ∈ [0…𝔊]ᵒʳᵈ: (0…𝔊+1]ᵒʳᵈ ∋ j+1
then
𝔊 is one of what Peano describes.

Moreover,
if
[0…ω)ᵒʳᵈ ∋ ω-1
then
⎛ [0…ω]ᵒʳᵈ is well.ordered
⎜ ∀k ∈ (0…ω]ᵒʳᵈ: [0…ω)ᵒʳᵈ ∋ k-1
⎝ ∀j ∈ [0…ω]ᵒʳᵈ: (0…ω+1]ᵒʳᵈ ∋ j+1
and
ω is one of what Peano describes,
which is incorrect --
ω is _first.after_ what Peano describes.

ω is infinite.
𝔊 is finite.
'Infinite and 'finite' don't mean 'large' and 'small'.
Post by WM
"All different unit fractions are different"
however is a basic truth.
Therefore I accept the latter.
You also accept quantifier shifts,
which breaks your logicᵂᴹ.
Quantifier shifts are unreliable.
Jim Burns
2024-09-03 17:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
as any unit fraction you might claim to be
that one has a unit fraction smaller than itself,
so it wasn't the smallest.
Your argument stems from visible unit fractions
but becomes invalid in the dark domain.
The darkᵂᴹ domain
  between 0 and visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions
is empty.
Then you could see the smallest unit fraction.
If the smallest unit.fraction existed,
you could see it positive and undercut by
a visibleᵂᴹ smaller.than.smallest unit.fraction.

But you can't see that.
The smallest unit fraction doesn't exist.

If the darkᵂᴹ domain held a positive lower.bound of
visibleᵂᴹ unit fractions,
you couldn't see it , but it would be undercut by
lower.than.lower.bound visibleᵂᴹ unit fractions.

But that can't be.
The darkᵂᴹ domain is empty.
Post by WM
Remember that they are fixed points with
non-empty gaps on the real line.
Around each visibleᵂᴹ ⅟k, mark a gap of size g/2ᵏ

gap size g/2ᵏ decreases exponentially faster than
gap separation ⅟k-⅟(k+1)
If gaps do not overlap initially,
they do not overlap ever.

Gₖ = g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ

½⋅(g+Gₖ) =
½⋅(g+g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ) =
g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹ =
Gₖ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹

½⋅(g+Gₖ) = Gₖ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹
Gₖ = g-g/2ᵏ < g

For visibleᵂᴹ unit.fraction ⅟j, let g = ½⋅⅟j²
All the visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ and their gaps
fit between 0 and ⅟j
Post by WM
Hence there is a first one.
For each visibleᵂᴹ unit fraction ⅟k
⅟(k+1) disproves by counter.example that ⅟k is first.

A darkᵂᴹ unit.fraction is between
0 and the visibleᵂᴹ unit fractions.

A darkᵂᴹ unit.fraction implies that
½⋅glb.⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ both is and is not undercut by
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

Darkᵂᴹ unit fractions do not exist.

A first unit fraction does not exist.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Each positive point is undercut by
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions,
No.
Only each visible positive point is undercut by
visible unit.fractions.
Each darkᵂᴹ positive point is positive.

Each darkᵂᴹ positive point is
a positive lower.bound of visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

Each (hypothetical) darkᵂᴹ positive point undercuts
the (hypothetical) positive greatest.lower.bound β of
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

2⋅β > β (hypothetically)
2⋅β is undercut by visibleᵂᴹ ⅟k
½⋅β is undercut by visibleᵂᴹ ¼⋅⅟k

However,
½⋅β < β (hypothetically)
½⋅β is NOT undercut.

A darkᵂᴹ positive point forces contradiction.
Therefore,
Only visibleᵂᴹ positive points exist.
Jim Burns
2024-09-04 18:08:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are
lessorequal than all unit fractions?
The correct answer is: one unit fraction.
Another answer is that
no unit fraction is
lessorequal than all unit fractions.
Yes:
for each ⅟j ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ
there is next.smaller ⅟j′ ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ:
⎛ ⅟j′ = ⅟(j+1) < ⅟j
⎝ ¬∃⅟hₓ ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ: ⅟j′ < ⅟hₓ < ⅟j

Also:
for each non.max.⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ ⅟j ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ
there is next.larger ⅟j″ ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ:
⎛ ⅟j″ = ⅟(j-1) > ⅟j
⎝ ¬∃⅟hₓ ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ: ⅟j″ > ⅟hₓ > ⅟j
⇐ ∃⅟i ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ: ⅟i > ⅟j

for each non.{} S ⊆ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ
there is max.S ⅟j ∈ S:
S ∋ ⅟j ≥ᵉᵃᶜʰ S

for each bounded.in.⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ non.{} S ⊆ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ
there is min.S ⅟j ∈ S:
S ∋ ⅟j ≤ᵉᵃᶜʰ S
⇐ ∃⅟k ∈ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ: ⅟k ≤ᵉᵃᶜʰ S

0 ∉ ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ
Post by WM
Another answer is that
no unit fraction is
lessorequal than all unit fractions.
That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0.
That means that
the unit.fractions between 0 and x > 0
will never be fewer than ℵ₀.many
well.ordered, stepping.up.and.down.except.max
visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions.

⎛ In a finite non.{} ordered set,
⎝ each subset is 2.ended.

That means that
the 1.ended unit.fractions between 0 and x > 0
are not finitely.many.
Post by WM
That means the function NUF(x)
Number of UnitFractions between 0 and x > 0
with NUF(0) = 0 will never increase but stay at 0.
There are no unit fractions existing at all.
x > ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ > 0

The unit.fractions are 1.ended.
There is no first unit.fraction.
Post by WM
Therefore
there is only the one correct answer given above.
Logicᵂᴹ which leads to the claim that
⎛ half the greatest.lower.bound of visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions
⎜ is undercut by visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions and
⎝ is NOT undercut by visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions
is broken logicᵂᴹ.

Not all sets are finite.
Not all sets have each non.{} subset 2.ended.
Chris M. Thomasson
2024-09-05 07:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are
lessorequal than all unit fractions?
The correct answer is: one unit fraction.
Another answer is that
no unit fraction is
lessorequal than all unit fractions.
Then NUF(x) will never leave the value 0.
Post by Jim Burns
Not all sets are finite.
But all different unit fractions are different, i.e., they sit at
different positive x. Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
Regards, WM
nope, NONE sit closest to zero, as there are always more that are closer.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
Yup. WM must be trolling all night long:


Moebius
2024-09-05 14:22:07 UTC
Permalink
one [unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero. [WM]
nope, NONE [no unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero, as there are always more that are closer.
Right.

If u is a unit fraction, 1/(1/u + 1) is a unit fraction which is closer
to 0 than s.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
Nope. The set of unit fractions is BOUNDED. It's lower bound is 0 and
its upper bound (which also is its maximum) is 1.
[...] WM must be trolling all night long
Well, he's just a mathematical crank.
WM
2024-09-05 14:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
one [unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero. [WM]
nope, NONE [no unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero, as there are
always more that are closer.
Right.
Wrong.

NUF(x) increases from 0 to ℵo. But it cannot increase to ℵo at one point
x > 0 because at every point there is at most one unit fraction. Before
ℵo there come 1, 2, 3, ...

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-06 03:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
 >>> one [unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero. [WM]
nope, NONE [no unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero, as there are
always more that are closer.
Right.
Wrong.
NUF(x) increases from 0 to ℵo. But it cannot increase to ℵo at one point
x > 0 because at every point there is at most one unit fraction.  Before
ℵo there come 1, 2, 3, ...
Regards, WM
Since it needs to find ℵo such points BEFORE we get to any of the finite
values, you need to admit that either NUF(x) isn't defined or you have
some other post-finite number system in view, which you logic is just
incapable of handling since it can't even handle the infinite set of
Natural Numbers.
Chris M. Thomasson
2024-09-06 22:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moebius
one [unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero. [WM]
nope, NONE [no unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero, as there are
always more that are closer.
Right.
If u is a unit fraction, 1/(1/u + 1) is a unit fraction which is closer
to 0 than s.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
Nope. The set of unit fractions is BOUNDED. It's lower bound is 0 and
its upper bound (which also is its maximum) is 1.
But it's "unbounded" wrt the infinity of unit fractions that get closer
and closer to zero? Fair enough?
Post by Moebius
[...] WM must be trolling all night long
Well, he's just a mathematical crank.
Moebius
2024-09-06 22:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris M. Thomasson
 >>> one [unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero. [WM]
nope, NONE [no unit fraction] sit[s] closest to zero, as there are
always more that are closer.
Right.
If u is a unit fraction, 1/(1/u + 1) is a unit fraction which is
closer to 0 than s.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
Nope. The set of unit fractions is BOUNDED. It's lower bound is 0 and
its upper bound (which also is its maximum) is 1.
But it's "unbounded" wrt the infinity of unit fractions that get closer
and closer to zero? Fair enough?
[...] WM must be trolling all night long
Well, he's just a mathematical crank.
WM
2024-09-05 13:59:30 UTC
Permalink
But all different unit fractions are different,
i.e., they sit at different positive x.
Yes,
each two sit at two points,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
No,
each sits not.closest to zero,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more. It cannot increase to 2 or more before
having accepted 1. It cannot increase to ℵo without having accepted 1,
2, 3, ...

Regards, WM
Jim Burns
2024-09-05 19:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
But all different unit fractions are different,
i.e., they sit at different positive x.
Yes,
each two sit at two points,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
No,
each sits not.closest to zero,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n ≠ 0
Post by WM
It cannot increase to 2 or more
before having accepted 1.
NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) cannot increase to 2
without having already been ≥ 2
0 < ... < ⅟(n+2) < ⅟(n+1) < ⅟n

NUF(x) ≥ NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x)

x > 0 ⇒ NUF(x) ≥ NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) ≥ 2
x ≤ 0 ⇒ NUF(x) = 0
x ⪋ 0 ⇒ NUF(x) ≠ 1
Post by WM
It cannot increase to ℵo without
having accepted 1, 2, 3, ...
x > 0 ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
WM
2024-09-06 12:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to 2 or more
before having accepted 1.
NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) cannot increase to 2
without having already been ≥ 2
Impossible. NUF(0) = 0. There is a first increase in linear order.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to ℵo without
having accepted 1, 2, 3, ...
x > 0  ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.

Regards, WM
joes
2024-09-06 12:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to 2 or more before having accepted 1.
NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) cannot increase to 2 without having already been ≥ 2
Impossible. NUF(0) = 0. There is a first increase in linear order.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to ℵo without having accepted 1, 2, 3, ...
x > 0  ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Therefore no x can be the least unit fraction.
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
WM
2024-09-06 20:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by joes
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Therefore no x can be the least unit fraction.
No definable x. No epsilon.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 02:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Therefore no x can be the least unit fraction.
No definable x. No epsilon.
Regards, WM
Which means no "Unit Fraction" as the reciprical of a Natural Number,
since they are all definable.

Thus, your NUF must also be counting some sub-finite values, or it just
doesn't exist.
WM
2024-09-07 13:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Therefore no x can be the least unit fraction.
No definable x. No epsilon.
Which means no "Unit Fraction" as the reciprical of a Natural Number,
since they are all definable.
All natural numbers which you recognize are definable.
Post by Richard Damon
Thus, your NUF must also be counting some sub-finite values, or it just
doesn't exist.
It exists. It counts definable numbers as well as sub-finitely definale
numbers.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 13:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Therefore no x can be the least unit fraction.
No definable x. No epsilon.
Which means no "Unit Fraction" as the reciprical of a Natural Number,
since they are all definable.
All natural numbers which you recognize are definable.
Which means that *ALL* Natural numbers are definable, the whole infinite
set of them.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Thus, your NUF must also be counting some sub-finite values, or it
just doesn't exist.
It exists. It counts definable numbers as well as sub-finitely definale
numbers.
And thus you accept that the domain of our NUF(x) isn't just a finite
number system, but includes a sub-finite system of numbers, and that the
value of x where NUF(x) is 1 isn't in the domain of finite numbers, so
it doesn't increase at 1/n for some Natural Number, but increase at some
"unit fraction" that is the reciprical of an post-finite number, greater
than all Natural numbers.
Post by WM
Regards, WM
Jim Burns
2024-09-06 16:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No.
NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x.
Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction.
NUF(0) = 0.
Between 0 and x
there are more than 0 unit fractions
there is more than 1 unit fraction
there are more than 2 unit fractions
there are more than 3 unit fractions
...

0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x

Between 0 and x
there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.

0 < ... < ⅟⌊k+1+⅟x⌋ < ... < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to 2 or more
before having accepted 1.
NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) cannot increase to 2
without having already been ≥ 2
Impossible.
NUF(0) = 0.
There is a first increase in linear order.
∀ᴿx ∈ (-1,0]: ⌈x⌉ = 0
∀ᴿx ∈ (0,1]: ⌈x⌉ = 1

Is there a first ε at which 5⋅⌈ε⌉ = 5 ?
Is there a first ε at which 5⋅⌈ε⌉ = 1 ?
Why is there?
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to ℵo without
having accepted 1, 2, 3, ...
x > 0  ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that.
Therefore there is no increase at 0.
Increases and decreases involve nearby points
from which increases and decreases increase and decrease.

∀ᴿx ∈ [-1,0): ⌊x⌋ = -1
∀ᴿx ∈ [0,1): ⌊x⌋ = 0
∀ᴿx ∈ [-1,0): ⌈-x⌉ = 1
∀ᴿx ∈ [0,1): ⌈-x⌉ = 0

f(x) = ⌊x⌋ or f(x) = ⌈-x⌉
f(x) either increases or decreases at 0

f(0) = 0
Can you answer
whether f(x) increases or decreases at 0?

No, you can't answer without information about
nearby points.
Post by WM
x is larger than all that.
"All that" are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
NUF(x) = ℵ₀
Post by WM
Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Yes.
x is NOT the first point > 0 after
more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.

Generalize.
What do we know about x ?
x > 0
What else?
WM
2024-09-06 20:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No.
NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x.
Between 0 and 0 there is no unit fraction.
NUF(0) = 0.
Between 0 and x
there are more than 0 unit fractions
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon, not between 0 and every possible x.
Post by Jim Burns
Between 0 and x
there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Betwee 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(0) = 0.
There is a first increase in linear order.
∀ᴿx ∈ (-1,0]:  ⌈x⌉ = 0
∀ᴿx ∈ (0,1]:  ⌈x⌉ = 1
Is there a first ε at which 5⋅⌈ε⌉ = 5 ?
ε = 1. But that is not related to the topic.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
0 is smaller than all that.
Therefore there is no increase at 0.
Increases and decreases involve nearby points
from which increases and decreases increase and decrease.
But here we have always 2^ℵo points where the function is constant
before it increases by 1.
Post by Jim Burns
Can you answer
whether f(x) increases or decreases at 0?
It is constant 0.
Post by Jim Burns
No, you can't answer without information about
nearby points.
I have information about nearby points on the negative axis. Only nearby
points less than x are relevant for judging about an increase in x.
Nearby points larger than x are irrelevant.
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
x is larger than all that.
"All that" are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
NUF(x) = ℵ₀
Post by WM
Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Yes.
x is NOT the first point > 0 after
more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
But there is an x immediately after 0. What else should be there?
Post by Jim Burns
Generalize.
What do we know about x ?
x > 0
What else?
We do not know anything. But we know that all unit fractions differ from
each other. That is sufficient to know that NUF(x) increases by 1 only
at any unit fraction.

Regards, WM
Jim Burns
2024-09-06 23:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No.
NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x.
Between 0 and 0 there is no unit fraction.
NUF(0) = 0.
Between 0 and x
there are more than 0 unit fractions
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon,
not between 0 and every possible x.
If x > 0 then there is ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ between 0 and x

⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ is not between 0 and every possible x′ > 0
but ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ doesn't need to be.
The claim is "between 0 and x".

You (WM) think ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ needs every possible
because
you think a quantifier shift is reliable.
A quantifier shift is not reliable.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Between 0 and x
there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Betwee 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Between 0 and any epsilon satisfying my description.
I haven't made a claim for other epsilons.

⎛ n ∈ ℕ⁺ ⇔ n can be counted.to from 1
⎜⎛ ℕ⁺ is well.ordered
⎜⎜ min.ℕ⁺ = 1
⎜⎜∀n ∈ ℕ⁺: n-1 ∈ ℕ⁺ ⇔ n≠1
⎜⎝ ∀n ∈ ℕ⁺: n+1 ∈ ℕ⁺

⎜ ∀q: q ∈ ℚ⁺ ⇔
⎜ ∃j,k ∈ ℕ⁺: k⋅q = j

⎜ Splits.ℚ⁺ =
⎜ {S⊆ℚ⁺:∅≠Sᵉᵃᶜʰ<ₑₓᵢₛₜₛSᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵉᵃᶜʰℚ⁺\S≠∅}

⎜ ∀r: r ∈ ℝ⁺ ⇔
⎝ ∃S' ∈ Splits.ℚ⁺: S' ᵉᵃᶜʰ< r ≤ᵉᵃᶜʰ ℚ⁺\S'

ε ∈ ℝ⁺
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(0) = 0.
There is a first increase in linear order.
∀ᴿx ∈ (-1,0]:  ⌈x⌉ = 0
∀ᴿx ∈ (0,1]:  ⌈x⌉ = 1
Is there a first ε at which 5⋅⌈ε⌉ = 5 ?
ε = 1.
Not even close to first.
5⋅⌈½⌉ = 5
etc.
Post by WM
But that is not related to the topic.
The topic is: sets without minimums.
Such as {x ∈ ℝ: NUF(x) > 0}
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
0 is smaller than all that.
Therefore there is no increase at 0.
Increases and decreases involve nearby points
from which increases and decreases increase and decrease.
Can you answer
whether f(x) increases or decreases at 0?
It is constant 0.
f(x) = ⌊x⌋ or f(x) = ⌈-x⌉
f(x) either increases or decreases at 0
f(0) = 0

f(x) is not constant.

Does f(x) increase at 0 or decrease at 0 ?

You can't answer.
You can only pretend I asked a different question.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
No, you can't answer without information about
nearby points.
I have information about
nearby points on the negative axis.
Fascinating.
Information about f(x) = ⌊x⌋ or ⌈-x⌉ ?
Where did you get this information?
Post by WM
Only nearby points less than x are relevant
for judging about an increase in x.
Only points on the left.
And, if you step across the line,
only points on the before.right which are now.left.
Why?
Post by WM
Nearby points larger than x are irrelevant.
Why?
Another response like "Because you are stupid"
is you (WM) flailing.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
x is larger than all that.
"All that" are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
NUF(x) = ℵ₀
Post by WM
Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Yes.
x is NOT the first point > 0 after
more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
But there is an x immediately after 0.
There isn't in ℝ⁺

⎛ n ∈ ℕ⁺ ⇔ n can be counted.to from 1
⎜⎛ ℕ⁺ is well.ordered
⎜⎜ min.ℕ⁺ = 1
⎜⎜∀n ∈ ℕ⁺: n-1 ∈ ℕ⁺ ⇔ n≠1
⎜⎝ ∀n ∈ ℕ⁺: n+1 ∈ ℕ⁺

⎜ ∀q: q ∈ ℚ⁺ ⇔
⎜ ∃j,k ∈ ℕ⁺: k⋅q = j

⎜ Splits.ℚ⁺ =
⎜ {S⊆ℚ⁺:∅≠Sᵉᵃᶜʰ<ₑₓᵢₛₜₛSᵉᵃᶜʰ<ᵉᵃᶜʰℚ⁺\S≠∅}

⎜ ∀r: r ∈ ℝ⁺ ⇔
⎝ ∃S' ∈ Splits.ℚ⁺: S' ᵉᵃᶜʰ< r ≤ᵉᵃᶜʰ ℚ⁺\S'
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Generalize.
What do we know about x ?
x > 0
What else?
We do not know anything.
But we know that
all unit fractions differ from each other.
That is sufficient to know that
NUF(x) increases by 1 only at any unit fraction.
NUF(x) never increases by 1.
If NUF(x) > 0 then NUF(x) > 1
If NUF(x) > 1 then NUF(x) > 2
If NUF(x) > 2 then NUF(x) > 3
...

If NUF(x) > 0 then,
for each k < ℵ₀ NUF(x) > k
WM
2024-09-07 11:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon,
not between 0 and every possible x.
If x > 0  then there is ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋  between 0 and x
Then identical unit fractions differ.
They are identical because NUF(x) counts them at the same x, but they
differ because NUF(x) counts more than 1 at this x.
A quantifier shift is not reliable.
That is no quantifier shift but simplest logic.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Between 0 and x
there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Between 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Between 0 and any epsilon satisfying my description.
I haven't made a claim for other epsilons.
Fine. There I agree. Every of your epsilons has ℵo smaller unit
fractions in (0, eps). This proves dark numbers.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 12:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by WM
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon,
not between 0 and every possible x.
If x > 0  then there is ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋  between 0 and x
Then identical unit fractions differ.
They are identical because NUF(x) counts them at the same x, but they
differ because NUF(x) counts more than 1 at this x.
A quantifier shift is not reliable.
That is no quantifier shift but simplest logic.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Between 0 and x
there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Between 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Between 0 and any epsilon satisfying my description.
I haven't made a claim for other epsilons.
Fine. There I agree. Every of your epsilons has ℵo smaller unit
fractions in (0, eps). This proves dark numbers.
Regards, WM
No, not the way you try to call them. It proves your concepts are just
broken.

Yes, we might be able to define a set of "dark numbers" as being a type
of sub-finite and post-finite number, the sub-finite numbers being a
form of infinitesimal smaller than any finite number, and the
post-finite infinite numbers that are greater than all of the infinite
set o finite numbers, but you seem to want to try to define that
possibility away, and since your mathematical ability can't even handle
the unbounded finite numbers, it has no hope for these sub/post-finite
values.
joes
2024-09-07 13:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by WM
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon, not between 0 and every possible x.
If x > 0  then there is ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋  between 0 and x
Then identical unit fractions differ.
They are identical because NUF(x) counts them at the same x, but they
differ because NUF(x) counts more than 1 at this x.
What?
Post by WM
A quantifier shift is not reliable.
That is no quantifier shift but simplest logic.
Post by WM
Between 0 and x there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Between 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Between 0 and any epsilon satisfying my description.
I haven't made a claim for other epsilons.
Fine. There I agree. Every of your epsilons has ℵo smaller unit
fractions in (0, eps). This proves dark numbers.
And all mathematics is well. Only WM doesn’t understand infinity.
What exactly is the proof?
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
WM
2024-09-07 13:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by joes
What exactly is the proof?
In your opinion ℵo unit fractions are identical because they sit at the
same x, but they differ because they are ℵo different unit fractions.

Your opinion is the death of logic.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 14:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by joes
What exactly is the proof?
In your opinion ℵo unit fractions are identical because they sit at the
same x, but they differ because they are ℵo different unit fractions.
Your opinion is the death of logic.
Regards, WM
Who said they sat at the same x? That is your idea because you can't
understand unbounded mathematics.

YOUR claims just prove that YOUR logic has blown itself to smithereens
when you pushed it pasts its limits by using it on an unbounded number
system,
joes
2024-09-07 13:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No.
NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x.
Between 0 and 0 there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
Between 0 and x there are more than 0 unit fractions
Between 0 and your defined x or epsilon, not between 0 and every possible x.
Which are yet to be defined.
Post by WM
Between 0 and x there are more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit fractions.
Betwee 0 and every epsilon you can define.
Enough for me.
Post by WM
Post by WM
NUF(0) = 0.
There is a first increase in linear order.
∀ᴿx ∈ (-1,0]:  ⌈x⌉ = 0 ∀ᴿx ∈ (0,1]:  ⌈x⌉ = 1
Is there a first ε at which 5⋅⌈ε⌉ = 5 ?
ε = 1. But that is not related to the topic.
First, not last.
Post by WM
Post by WM
0 is smaller than all that.
Therefore there is no increase at 0.
Increases and decreases involve nearby points from which increases and
decreases increase and decrease.
But here we have always 2^ℵo points where the function is constant
before it increases by 1.
So what?
Post by WM
Can you answer whether f(x) increases or decreases at 0?
It is constant 0.
No, you can't answer without information about nearby points.
I have information about nearby points on the negative axis. Only nearby
points less than x are relevant for judging about an increase in x.
Nearby points larger than x are irrelevant.
What about the negative of Dirac’s delta?
Post by WM
Post by WM
Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
Yes.
x is NOT the first point > 0 after more.than.any.k<ℵ₀ unit.fractions.
But there is an x immediately after 0. What else should be there?
You in particular should know the reals are dense. There is no
„immediately after”.
Post by WM
Generalize.
What do we know about x ?
x > 0 What else?
We do not know anything. But we know that all unit fractions differ from
each other. That is sufficient to know that NUF(x) increases by 1 only
at any unit fraction.
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
WM
2024-09-07 13:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by joes
Post by WM
But there is an x immediately after 0. What else should be there?
You in particular should know the reals are dense. There is no
„immediately after”.
In actual infinity all points are there. If you believe that between
every pair of points points can be inserted - and that infinitely often
- then you apply potential infinity. In actual infinity all points are
there from the beginning without infinite processing.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 14:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by joes
Post by WM
But there is an x immediately after 0. What else should be there?
You in particular should know the reals are dense. There is no
„immediately after”.
In actual infinity all points are there. If you believe that between
every pair of points points can be inserted - and that infinitely often
- then you apply potential infinity. In actual infinity all points are
there from the beginning without infinite processing.
Regards, WM
Yes, all the points are there, and they are infinitely dense, so there
are no "adjacent" points.

How did you get your "actual infinity" without doing "infinite" processing?

This seems to be your problem. Finite processing can't complete an
infinite entity.
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 02:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.

So, either NUF(x) counts some sub-finite "unit fractions" (that are not
the reciprocals of Natural Numbers) or it just doesn't exist.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to 2 or more
before having accepted 1.
NUFᵈᵉᶠ(x) cannot increase to 2
without having already been ≥ 2
Impossible. NUF(0) = 0. There is a first increase in linear order.
Which can't be the reciprical of a Natural Numbers (since there will
always be a smaller number) so it must be counting some sub-finite
numbers as unit fractions or it just doesn't exist.
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
It cannot increase to ℵo without
having accepted 1, 2, 3, ...
x > 0  ⇒
0 < ... < ⅟⌊4+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊3+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊2+⅟x⌋ < ⅟⌊1+⅟x⌋ < x
0 is smaller than all that. Therefore there is no increase at 0.
x is larger than all that. Therefore your x is not the least one posiible.
So it can't increment finitely at recipricals of Natural Numbers so
either it is counting some sub-finite values too, or it just doesn't exist.
Post by WM
Regards, WM
WM
2024-09-07 12:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.
This idea must be dropped.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 12:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.
This idea must be dropped.
Regards, WM
Then the idea that NUF(x) "increases by one" at the values of "unit
fractions" must be dropped.

Sorry, you can't have one without the other.
WM
2024-09-07 13:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.
This idea must be dropped.
Then the idea that NUF(x) "increases by one" at the values of "unit
fractions" must be dropped.
Sorry, you can't have one without the other.
Then logic breaks down because identical elements differ.
The unit fractions are identical because they sit at the same x, but
they differ because they are ℵo different unit fractions.

Logic or the successor axiom? Without the former the latter would be
useless.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 15:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.
This idea must be dropped.
Then the idea that NUF(x) "increases by one" at the values of "unit
fractions" must be dropped.
Sorry, you can't have one without the other.
Then logic breaks down because identical elements differ.
The unit fractions are identical because they sit at the same x, but
they differ because they are ℵo different unit fractions.
Logic or the successor axiom? Without the former the latter would be
useless.
Regards, WM
Why do you say they are all a x, they are all BELOW x, as there is room
for them as x is a positive finite value.

You are just showing you don't understand what you are talking about, as
you like to begin with impossible assumptions. (Because you assume the
infinite works just like the finite, which it doesn't).


No problem with the successor axiom, you just can't find a "first" to
take the successor of, as the unit fractions are counted by successor
from the other end, and there is no "smallest" to start counting from at
that end.

This just reveals your insanity.
Python
2024-09-07 13:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
NUF(x) increases from 0 to more.
...at 0.
No. NUF(x) counts the unit fractions between 0 and x. Between 0 and 0
there is no unit fraction. NUF(0) = 0.
But it CAN'T for the values of x that are finite, as for ANY finite
number, there is an infinite number of unit factions below it, so it
can't ever have a finite value for any finite x.
This idea must be dropped.
Now YOU must be dropped. Fired. Forced to give your wages back and put
in jail.
WM
2024-09-05 14:08:14 UTC
Permalink
But all different unit fractions are different, i.e., they sit at
different positive x. Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
nope, NONE sit closest to zero, as there are always more that are closer.
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
You are in error. That was the ancient idea of infinity. In fact unbounded
means that you cannot see the end. But you can see a point behind the end,
namly zero.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-06 03:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
But all different unit fractions are different, i.e., they sit at
different positive x. Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
nope, NONE sit closest to zero, as there are always more that are closer.
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
That is what UNBOUNDED means.
You are in error. That was the ancient idea of infinity. In fact
unbounded means that you cannot see the end. But you can see a point
behind the end, namly zero.
Regards, WM
Right, there is no BOUND to the number in the set, so there is not "end"
to that set in the set.

The bound is outside the set.

This is what happens when you deal with real infinite sets, which breaks
your "finite" logic that can't deal with such things.

This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity, just proof of your stupidity.
WM
2024-09-06 12:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 02:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Regards, WM
Only if it exists.

If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers (since
there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).

So, either it is counting some sub-finite values (actually a lot of them
a countable infinity of them) or it just doesn't exist.

Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
Ross Finlayson
2024-09-07 03:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Regards, WM
Only if it exists.
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers (since
there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
So, either it is counting some sub-finite values (actually a lot of them
a countable infinity of them) or it just doesn't exist.
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
That's a remarkable supposition, I wonder how you'd imagine
both to satisfy to yourself and others that thusly is a
"consistent" form, of course which only requires "internal
consistency" for its own sake, then besides, to suffer the
running of the gauntlet, of those who'd insist it contradicted
theirs. For, their are simple inductive arguments that nothing
ever happens or is, at all.

I sort of appreciate the sentiment, though, that "infinite"
is big enough to have quite a range.
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 12:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Regards, WM
Only if it exists.
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers (since
there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
So, either it is counting some sub-finite values (actually a lot of them
a countable infinity of them) or it just doesn't exist.
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
That's a remarkable supposition, I wonder how you'd imagine
both to satisfy to yourself and others that thusly is a
"consistent" form, of course which only requires "internal
consistency" for its own sake, then besides, to suffer the
running of the gauntlet, of those who'd insist it contradicted
theirs. For, their are simple inductive arguments that nothing
ever happens or is, at all.
I sort of appreciate the sentiment, though, that "infinite"
is big enough to have quite a range.
The problem with "consistancy" is that WM's mathematicss isn't
consistent with the full Natural Numbers, and unlikely to be helped with
the addition of something even more esoteric.

His work doesn't define the set well enough to actually define how it
must work, and the best answer is likly to just adopt one of the
existing set of sub-finite number, it just needs to have a countably
infinite subset of values that can be reasonable defined as "unit
fractions".
Ross Finlayson
2024-09-07 15:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Regards, WM
Only if it exists.
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers (since
there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
So, either it is counting some sub-finite values (actually a lot of them
a countable infinity of them) or it just doesn't exist.
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
That's a remarkable supposition, I wonder how you'd imagine
both to satisfy to yourself and others that thusly is a
"consistent" form, of course which only requires "internal
consistency" for its own sake, then besides, to suffer the
running of the gauntlet, of those who'd insist it contradicted
theirs. For, their are simple inductive arguments that nothing
ever happens or is, at all.
I sort of appreciate the sentiment, though, that "infinite"
is big enough to have quite a range.
The problem with "consistancy" is that WM's mathematicss isn't
consistent with the full Natural Numbers, and unlikely to be helped with
the addition of something even more esoteric.
His work doesn't define the set well enough to actually define how it
must work, and the best answer is likly to just adopt one of the
existing set of sub-finite number, it just needs to have a countably
infinite subset of values that can be reasonable defined as "unit
fractions".
Maybe it'd do better with less.

How about this, imagine it was your duty to convince a panel of
mathematicians that something that made for the most properties
possible of the notion of an iota-value or least-positive-rational,
had a way to define this thing. Is it any different than f(1) for
n/d, d-> oo, n -> d, modeling a not-a-real-function as a limit of
real functions?

Or does that just mean crazy-town to you? The crazy-town here
is actually sort of crazy-town, like, you walk out on the streets
and at various intervals encounter derelict indigents who are
entirely insane, on most given Tuesdays.

How do you keep your sanity in crazy-town, or help rehabilitate
crazy-town? Among the ideas that nothing can be crazy if it's
all consistent, in the infinite, get into things like Hausdorff's
constructible universe, and Skolem's countable universe, or,
"model of ZF", if "universe" makes no sound to you.
Ross Finlayson
2024-09-07 16:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Richard Damon
Post by Ross Finlayson
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
This is NOT the "ancient" idea of infinity,
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Regards, WM
Only if it exists.
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers (since
there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
So, either it is counting some sub-finite values (actually a lot of them
a countable infinity of them) or it just doesn't exist.
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
That's a remarkable supposition, I wonder how you'd imagine
both to satisfy to yourself and others that thusly is a
"consistent" form, of course which only requires "internal
consistency" for its own sake, then besides, to suffer the
running of the gauntlet, of those who'd insist it contradicted
theirs. For, their are simple inductive arguments that nothing
ever happens or is, at all.
I sort of appreciate the sentiment, though, that "infinite"
is big enough to have quite a range.
The problem with "consistancy" is that WM's mathematicss isn't
consistent with the full Natural Numbers, and unlikely to be helped with
the addition of something even more esoteric.
His work doesn't define the set well enough to actually define how it
must work, and the best answer is likly to just adopt one of the
existing set of sub-finite number, it just needs to have a countably
infinite subset of values that can be reasonable defined as "unit
fractions".
Maybe it'd do better with less.
How about this, imagine it was your duty to convince a panel of
mathematicians that something that made for the most properties
possible of the notion of an iota-value or least-positive-rational,
had a way to define this thing. Is it any different than f(1) for
n/d, d-> oo, n -> d, modeling a not-a-real-function as a limit of
real functions?
Or does that just mean crazy-town to you? The crazy-town here
is actually sort of crazy-town, like, you walk out on the streets
and at various intervals encounter derelict indigents who are
entirely insane, on most given Tuesdays.
How do you keep your sanity in crazy-town, or help rehabilitate
crazy-town? Among the ideas that nothing can be crazy if it's
all consistent, in the infinite, get into things like Hausdorff's
constructible universe, and Skolem's countable universe, or,
"model of ZF", if "universe" makes no sound to you.
You might aver "nobody does that" and that
would be wrong - every day there's Dirichlet
and Poincare and Dirac and there's time-ordering
and making the derivation of Fourier series and
most usually an equi-partitioning of a unit interval
as according to a large number N in a sort of
reverse delta-epsilonics, in fact it suffices to
say that without such a notion of equi-partitioning
infinitely a unit interval there'd be no modularity
of distance at all.

In fact it was in the physics courses where it was
introduced "not-a-real-function yet with real
analytical character as modeled as a (continuum)
limit of real functions", Dirac delta, which is only
so _in the limit_ and just like calculus only perfect
and so _in the limit_, that it's first little bit is just
like its last little bit.

And non-zero, ....


And if you've never heard of that then congratulations,
here's a new word for your vocabulary.

WM
2024-09-07 13:06:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Only if it exists.
There is no reason to deny its existence. If there is zero and all real
numbers x > 0 and if there are unit fractions, then we can ask how many
unit fractions are between 0 and any x.
Post by Richard Damon
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers

Only reciprocals of natural numbers are counted.
Post by Richard Damon
(since there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
Perhaps you consider only definable natural numbers. They have no
largest element.
Post by Richard Damon
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.

Dark numbers are post finitely definable.

Regards, WM
Richard Damon
2024-09-07 13:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Right or wrong in your opinion?
Only if it exists.
There is no reason to deny its existence. If there is zero and all real
numbers x > 0 and if there are unit fractions, then we can ask how many
unit fractions are between 0 and any x.
Right, and that number is aleph_0 for ALL finite x.

What doesn't work is say9ing that it must increase by just one, since
the only points that we can evaluate it at (if we are dealing with
finite numbers) it has already gotten to an infinite value where the
concept of "increment" doesn't really exist.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers
Only reciprocals of natural numbers are counted.
Then it never has a value of ONE.

Sorry, you are just being inconsistant, and thus showing that you brain
has been exploded by the inconsistancy in your logic.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
(since there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
Perhaps you consider only definable natural numbers. They have no
largest element.
And thus the unit fractions, there reciprical, have not smallest element.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of Natural
Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
Dark numbers are post finitely definable.
And thus are NOT "finite" numbers, so neither natural Numbers or Unit
Fractions of Natural Numbers.

Note, "Post-finite" means beyond the finite, so could be things like the
trans-finite numbers, or something more essoteric.
Post by WM
Regards, WM
joes
2024-09-07 13:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Post by WM
NUF(x) must grow. It cannot grow by more than 1 at any x.
Only if it exists.
There is no reason to deny its existence. If there is zero and all real
numbers x > 0 and if there are unit fractions, then we can ask how many
unit fractions are between 0 and any x.
You seem to be denying the existence of an infinite step function
(regardless of whether you believe it to be equal to yours). You are
imagining function that somehow (looking from the right) counts down
infinity going to the left. I understand your argument of unique single-
step positions, yet there is no space for an infinity of them.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
If it does, it must be counting some sub-finite values as "unit
fractions" that are not the reciprocal of the Natural Numbers
Only reciprocals of natural numbers are counted.
Which are all visible/definable/light/finite.
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
(since there is no smallest of those unit fractions to count from).
Perhaps you consider only definable natural numbers. They have no
largest element.
Thank you.

[fix your quotes]
Post by WM
Post by Richard Damon
Maybe that is your dark numbers, these sub-finite numbers that are
reciprocals of some post-finite values above the infinite set of
Natural Numbers (which have no upper bound) and are below Omega.
Dark numbers are post finitely definable.
Uh what now?
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.
Jim Burns
2024-09-04 21:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are
lessorequal than all unit fractions?
The correct answer is: one unit fraction.
Another answer is that
no unit fraction is
lessorequal than all unit fractions.
Then NUF(x) will never leave the value 0.
Post by Jim Burns
Not all sets are finite.
But all different unit fractions are different,
i.e., they sit at different positive x.
Around each of ℵ₀.many visibleᵂᴹ ⅟k,
mark a gap of length g/2ᵏ

Gap length g/2ᵏ decreases exponentially faster than
gap distance ⅟k-⅟(k+1)
If gaps do not overlap initially,
then they do not overlap ever.

⎛ Gₖ = g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ

⎜ ½⋅(g+Gₖ) =
⎜ ½⋅(g+g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ) =
⎜ g/2+g/4+g/8+...+g/2ᵏ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹ =
⎜ Gₖ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹

⎜ ½⋅(g+Gₖ) = Gₖ+g/2ᵏ⁺¹
⎝ Gₖ = g-g/2ᵏ < g

For visibleᵂᴹ unit.fraction ⅟j, let g = ½⋅⅟j²
ℵ₀.many visibleᵂᴹ unit.fractions ⅟ℕᴰᴱꟳ and the gaps g/2ᵏ
fit between 0 and ⅟j
But all different unit fractions are different,
i.e., they sit at different positive x.
Yes,
each two sit at two points,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.
No,
each sits not.closest to zero,
because ∀n ∈ ℕ: ⅟n-⅟(n+1) > 0
WM
2024-09-04 20:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Burns
Post by WM
How many different unit fractions are
lessorequal than all unit fractions?
The correct answer is: one unit fraction.
Another answer is that
no unit fraction is
lessorequal than all unit fractions.
Then NUF(x) will never leave the value 0.
Post by Jim Burns
Not all sets are finite.
But all different unit fractions are different, i.e., they sit at
different positive x. Therefore only one can sit closest to zero.

Regards, WM
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